28 Nov 03
3 edits
Originally posted by Baron of ChessBanning an IP address is not so simple as people think. With the advent of the cable modem and DSL (digital subscriber line), there is now such a thing called a "floating IP address." Simply put, this means that when you log on to the Internet, on a non dial-up medium, your computer is assigned an IP address from a "flotaing pool " of IP addresses (because you are not attached to a phone line). When you log off, your temporary IP is then reassigned to someone else, who is a paying member of your ISP. It is quite difficult to ban a specific computer for this reason.
If Russ knows the offending IP address, why doesn't he just block that address.
EDIT: One more thing to add. If Russ bans you based on his terms of service, you have no recourse, pawn star or not. I also think that it is quite telling that neither he nor Chris have reponded to this thread.
That being said, your computer does have a "physical address." You can find this quite easily (START-->RUN-->ipconfig). This is used to track, primarily, your billing from the ISP (Internet service provider). This information is, however, proprietary. Russ wold have to personally e-mail your ISP in order to have you banned and provide very detailed evidence. They would then have to track your user ID and password and specifically ban you on the basis of your personal information. As such, it is much easier to ban aspects of an ISP (read that as many people using the same computer), than it is to ban a specific user.
Bottom line: It takes a lot of back-end effort to ban an individual user from a Web site. Even then, that person can re-register from a friend's computer. Let's not be so quick to vilify the guy who owns the site.
28 Nov 03
Originally posted by flexmore...and just exactly what part of " no corresspondence will be entered into" did you not understand? flexbore??
written by russ but posted by flexmore because russ, although interested and compassionate, is too busy sleeping to hear all your (our) arguements:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...[text shortened]... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz what the f$#@
28 Nov 03
1 edit
Originally posted by pradtfJust to reiterate, you may all use the same gateway, but your personal information is unique. Say one of the other people who used your gateway was abusive or violated the terms of service. That person would have to be banned based upon private information (specifically, the hidden password), information that has been promised to be kept confidential.
nor is playing through the same gateway. we have 4 people who use the same gateway on our network. all 4 of us are pawn stars and there is no problem.
pradtf, I understand that your are not finding fault with the decisions of the site owners, I am not trying to put you on the spot. I am simply pointing out that, when running a Web site, there are many factors that we, the users, fail to understand.
EDIT: I just realized that laws and procedures may be different in the UK. My two posts above refer to my experiences in the US computer industry.
28 Nov 03
Originally posted by Baron of ChessWrong. There are a lot of long-term players here. Most of them don't get involved in the mud-slinging of the forums and they don't attack the site administrators. They just play chess. No one said this was a democracy and imagine the hell if it was. If you feel that this site doesn't meet the needs of a "REAL" chess player, go somewhere else. I personally believe that Russ and Chris run the site well, which is why I've stayed for for two years.
This site needs growth. There is a lack of long-staying players. Most REAL chess players try-out a site for 50 or so games to get a feel for it before "plunking down the Gold" which is what Russ needs to keep it going.
Baron of Chess State of Washington,USA
spelling error corrected[/b]
Ben
28 Nov 03
2 edits
Originally posted by Poison Godmachineno not at all and thank you. i found both your posts quite helpful so i'll ask you a question.
Just to reiterate, you may all use the same gateway, but your personal information is unique....
pradtf, I understand that your are not finding fault with the decisions of the site owners, I am not trying to put you on the spot. ...[text shortened]... there are many factors that we, the users, fail to understand.
the 4 of us use different machines but the same gateway. as far as the cable company and hence the outside world is concerned, we all have same IP address - i think. are you saying that this isn't necessarily so and that it is possible to get the specific machine's identity on our local network?
i know this can be done to some extent, since a friend and i set up a 'direct' communications link from LA to one of our machines (in vancouver island) for a irc chat, but i've forgotten how we did it. so that means that an outside computer can connect directly with one of our local machines provided we supply the right local IP (ie the 192.168.0.x) as well as the gateway's address.
does that means it should be possible to go the other way? in other words, would it be possible to 'dig' beyond the gateway IP and pick up the local area IP from the outside?
i am very curious about this (because i am diddling with freebsd which runs our network) and should probably have asked in a different thread, but it looks like russ has everything sorted out in his usual excellent fashion (ie russ explains thread), so i figured i might as well ask you right here since subsequent posts relating to the title of this thread are pretty irrelevant now.
in friendship.
prad
28 Nov 03
Originally posted by Baron of Chess
If Russ knows the offending IP address, why doesn't he just block that address. If he does not know the IP address or computer ID, then what does he base his banning of the 3 "accomplices". If there is a thought the same person entered 3 times into a tourney... why not place the three of them in "their own group" within the tourney and they wil ...[text shortened]... ng.
Baron of Chess State of Washington,USA
spelling error corrected
Baron,
Go see a doctor and take your two friends with you !
Thanks Russ
29 Nov 03
1 edit
Originally posted by pradtfGood. It is sometimes difficult to ascertain if my posts are offensive to others on the Internet due to the tone in which I write.
no not at all and thank you. i found both your posts quite helpful so i'll ask you a question.
the 4 of us use different machines but the same gateway. as far as the cable company and hence the outside world is concerned, we all have sa ...[text shortened]... of this thread are pretty irrelevant now.
in friendship.
prad
Though I'm not quite sure if I have forgiven you for timing me out last year. 😀
I know I have posted computer-related advice here many times in the past, but I am simply passing along information that I have gleaned over my many years of working for Microsoft. I do not have a degree in Computer Science and my knowledge of networking, specifically, is consigned to setting up LANs at work and helping friends troubleshoot very elementary problems. So please try to verify what I'm telling you below, because I may be mistaken about certain specifics.
And if you do, post where I was mistaken. I have no compunctions about being proven wrong publically.
I always have to post some sort of caveat here, don't I?
Anyway. An outside computer CAN access your individual machine (using any number of publically available programs) but you MUST provide the physical address of your computer (unless it is some kind of ultra badass hacker). It is different from the IP address. The thing is, the physical address of your machine looks EXACTLY like an IP address (xx.xxx.xx or xxx.xxx.x or a couple of other combinations), and is, therefore, often referred to as the physical address, even by Network Engineers. This is a misnomer which probably will not go away. The cable company knows the physical addresses of your machines because they are your ISP and they can track that information via the gateway. But they cannot give away the information, not even to their Tech Support specialists. That's why you have to provide it to the guy on the phone when you encounter difficulties.
So when you say "provided we supply the right local IP" you are really saying "provided we supply the right physical address." Unless you actually give away your personal information, your computer is relatively secure. So, yes, it is possible to "go the other way" due to weaknesses in Windows security (MACs have some of the same problems but they are less publicized due to the relatively small market share). But rest assured that these are "weaknesses" and not "vulnerabilities." The chances that someone would breach your computer (or would even WANT to breach your computer) are infinitesimal at best.
Did I answer your question?
29 Nov 03
Originally posted by Poison Godmachineyes to a large extent. though getting the physical address of a local computer is not as simple as xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/192.168.0.12 from what i remember. i will look into this because i want to try to setup a direct telephony connection and irc just for fun with a friend in the US. i'm sure it can be done in freebsd - just have to find out how. so thanks.
Though I'm not quite sure if I have forgiven you for timing me out last year. 😀
Did I answer your question?
as for the other matter. i remember i did do that and i also remember that you were good enough to explain what posion godmachine was after i had asked. i was relatively new to the site and was probably too keen to see how the TO worked. even so i would hope i not only waited a reasonable amount of time, but also sent you reminders. if i didn't do those things, it was very poor of me.
in any case, i should make amends. i would be happy to send 2 games your way - in the first you can time me out, not because i think you are vengeful, but because it would even the 'score' from my end. the second we would play out - just as we should have done one year ago.
just let me know here or via pm 🙂
in friendship,
prad
30 Nov 03
If you find out how to do it freeBSD-wise, kindly let me know via PM, there's no need to clutter the forums with information that is only relevant to you and I. I'm interested.
As far as the "other matter..." 😀
I actually vividly remember the game, as it quite took me aback. It was an open invite game that I accepted from you, when you first joined RHP.
Dude, I was absolutely flummoxed by your strong moves. I had never encountered the like outside of my experiences with a couple of my friends in "real life" who are strong players. Please don't take my "not sure if I forgive you" comment too seriously, as it was tongue-in-cheek.
Despite what it says in my profile, I'm not particularly concerned with my rating. I certainly don't want you to deliberately resign a game! I'd love to play you again. I assume you have a challenge filter, but go ahead and send over a pair of 7-day timeout games, if you desire. We can discuss network-related things further through the games.