26 May 05
Originally posted by Freddie2004speaks the biggest loser ever to appear on a chess forum.
says someone who managed to turn a highly successful clan with 20 members and a quickly increasing tally of points, into a clan with 6 members and which is slowly slipping onto page two.
fred
Got a life son
bigal34
26 May 05
1 edit
Originally posted by sjegDubious means?! Ha. Let's talk about dubious means.
Well said!
I hate the way they're always changing the rules in football. But, if the rule states he can move along the line now, which I might suggest is a nonsense, then he still left his line before kicks were taken, which is certainly e ...[text shortened]... nough.
Enjoy the party, to all you fans. Congratulations, LFC!
Shevchenko headbutted Materrazi - y'know, physical assault, not somebody stepping off a line moments before a ball is kicked but actual assault - in the second leg of the quarter-final against Inter. Dubious means that he avoided a three match ban and suspension from the final? Italian media conveniently forgetting it?
It's football, it's sport, it's inherently flawed and broken and error-strewn and unfair. Media from respective countries *are* biased. To highlight only the Liverpool "injustices" and only the English media is narrow-minded bordering on myopic.
It's also rather sad and joyless to not temper it with anything other than guarded and glib praise - look at the facts: Liverpool knocked out Juventus, they knocked out Chelsea, they knocked out AC Milan - arguably three of the five favourites to win the tournament. They played outstandingly well away to Leverkusen in the last 16, they came from one down to Olympiakos at half-time in the final group game to win 3-1 in a game they had to win 3-1 in order to qualify. They had Djimi Traore in their side and still won the European Cup. Dubious means may have been involved, just as they were when Dida for Milan came off his line ridiculously early in the penalty shoot out in the final two years ago. But as with Milan then, and certainly with Liverpool this year, I think dubious means is but a small fraction of what they brought to the competition.
27 May 05
[It's football, it's sport, it's inherently flawed and broken and error-strewn and unfair. Look at the facts: Liverpool knocked out Juventus, Chelsea, AC Milan - arguably three of the five favourites to win the tournament. They played outstandingly well away to Leverkusen in the last 16, they came from one down to Olympiakos at half-time in the final group game to win 3-1 in a game they had to win 3-1 in order to qualify.I just can't stop smiling. The feeling of being European Champions again is even better now that the hangover is starting to fade 😏
They had Djimi Traore in their side and still won the European Cup.
Any bets of how many of those players who played Wednesday will still be with Liverpool in August? I reckon just Riise, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso, Garcia and Cisse will survive. 6 stay and 8 move on.
Any thoughts?
27 May 05
Originally posted by malingaI would add Hypia to that list too..
I just can't stop smiling. The feeling of being European Champions again is even better now that the hangover is starting to fade 😏
Any bets of how many of those players who played Wednesday will still be with Liverpool in August? I reckon just Riise, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso, Garcia and Cisse will survive. 6 stay and 8 move on.
Any thoughts?
Seems like there will be big changes to the squad though.
Looks like a new keeper is nearly signed anyway, VillarrealsPepe Reina
27 May 05
Originally posted by malingaHes 31, has been playing well alongside Carragher in the centre of defence and even scored the odd goal this season.. He may not be a Maldini but i'd give him another season or two at liverpool.
Hyypia?? Not a hope mate. He has been brilliant but his day is done. Too old too slow.
to quote Rafa..
"Steven Gerrard is a key player for us, along with Xabi Alonso, Luis Garcia, Fernando Morientes, Jamie Carragher and Sami Hyypia," said Benitez.
"We've a lot of good players but we need to find more to improve the team."
27 May 05
1 edit
Originally posted by malingaFollowing all will be told they can go if someone comes in for them I reckon:
I just can't stop smiling. The feeling of being European Champions again is even better now that the hangover is starting to fade 😏
Any bets of how many of those players who played Wednesday will still be with Liverpool in August? I re ...[text shortened]... cia and Cisse will survive. 6 stay and 8 move on.
Any thoughts?
Of those that played:
Dudek
Traore (possibly)
Smicer
Hamann
Baros
Kewell (possibly)
Of those that didn't play:
Kirkland (possibly)
One of Sinama-Pongolle/Le Tallec
Pellegrino
I'd maybe add Finnan to the those-that-played-who-will-stay-list.
I gather Baros has been linked to Spurs in some quarters - someone say it aint so!
28 May 05
Originally posted by T1000Joyless? That's crud. I am not overcome with joy about the Liverpool victory. I am not a Liverpool fan. I have not reason to be joyful regarding that result.
Dubious means?! Ha. Let's talk about dubious means.
Shevchenko headbutted Materrazi - y'know, physical assault, not somebody stepping off a line moments before a ball is kicked but actual assault - in the second leg of the quarter-final against Inter. Dubious means that he avoided a three match ban and suspension from the final? Italian media conveniently ...[text shortened]... is year, I think dubious means is but a small fraction of what they brought to the competition.
I was not intentionally damning Liverpool with faint praise.
My previous point was about the nature of the English media. You take bias to new levels. To quote your commentator after the Pirlo - Dudek penalty:
"Well...we know... but I won't say it".
And, incidentally, Dudek was on the edge of the six-yard box for each of those penalties.
So, *I will* say it, as an impartial observer. That is all.
A second point: if that had happened to an English side, do you think we would ever have heard the end of it?
Well, considering you are all still moaning about Maradonna's "Hand of God" goal today, twenty years on, then I sincerely doubt it. Was that match an injustice? Did the weaker side win by spurious means?
No. Argentina were fifty times better than the English, *and* Maradonna scored *another* goal in that match, if I remember, and possibly *the greatest individual score of all time*. Does that stop you English whinging about it?
Does it hell.
Just a brief example to illustrate a point. I reckon the Australians have your number, lads- "whinging pommes" covers it when you lose. When you win through breaking the rules of the game - silence. [b]Typical English sportsmanship? Surely you can see that it's a myth!
Tally ho!😉
28 May 05
1 edit
Originally posted by sjegHeh, you miss my point. I deny nowhere players and clubs - if they can get away with it - will pull the wool over the eyes of officials. My point was to highlight how strange it is of you to mention only the Liverpool "dubious means", only the "British media". You've used twice as many words to criticise than you have to praise, and even then you've picked only on one club's antics and the media from one country. Which of course is your right, just strikes me as being somewhat sad and lacking in objectivity.
Joyless? That's crud. I am not overcome with joy about the Liverpool victory. I am not a Liverpool fan. I have not reason to be joyful regarding that result.
I was not intentionally damning Liverpool with faint praise.
My previous point wa ...[text shortened]... ortsmanship? Surely you can see that it's a myth!
Tally ho!😉[/b]
29 May 05
2 edits
Originally posted by T1000
Heh, you miss my point. I deny nowhere players and clubs - if they can get away with it - will pull the wool over the eyes of officials. My point was to highlight how strange it is of you to mention only the Liverpool "dubious means", only ...[text shortened]... just strikes me as being somewhat sad and lacking in objectivity.
No, my good friend, what is sad and nationally subjective is your good self.
In brief:
1) As we were talking about the Champions' League Final, then I merely highlighted the "good fortune", shall we say, of one side. Had there been any such "fortune" on the other side that had occurred to me, then I would have mentioned it.
If my post had twice as much criticism as it had praise, then that is because there was ample material to fit in on one side of the argument.
If you think this biased, you are free to counter my opinion constructively with your own opinion on that match, citing incidences from that match to prove your point, instead of mumbling some generic truism about the nature of mankind, and then crying foul. That, my good man, is sad.
2) What is sadder is that you might request that other people turn a blind eye to your cheating and unsportsmanlike behaviour, without any apparent reason for such. Well, I'm sorry, but Johnny Foreigner is on to you English, and knows well that it's not all cricket and cucumber sandwiches at elevenses, so expect him to mock you when you drop your gentlemanly facade, and your true colours come shining through.
Pip pip, old boy!😀
So, let's address what you claim is your ingenious point, Sir. That people cheat if they can get away with it? That I only pointed out one side's cheating, and not so much the other? And that this was terribly unfair? So, let's have it then- put forward your side- Milan's cheating in the final. I expect a long post in reply. Take your time.
My original post was concerned with the state of the game of football today, that this stuff goes on all over, and that I don't like it. It's only when you come along and claim that drawing attention to such is joyless, because an English side got away with it this time, that I feel obliged to point out such nonsense.
29 May 05
Originally posted by sjegErr, two years ago, Milan vs Juventus, Old Trafford, Dida's behaviour during the penalties.
So, let's address what you claim is your ingenious point, Sir. That people cheat if they can get away with it? That I only pointed out one side's cheating, and not so much the other? And that this was terribly unfair? So, let's have it then- put forward your side- Milan's cheating in the final. I expect a long post in reply. Take your time.
Err, quarter-finals this year, Milan vs Inter, San Siro, Shevchenko headbutting Materrazzi.
Err, want me to go on?
Take a step back and look at the bigger picture, not just the final.
It happens. Dudek performed as badly as Dida did two years ago. British media largely glossed over any such "dubious means", no denying that either. To read your posts though makes it sound like it's only Liverpool, only Dudek, only the British media, when there's plenty of evidence around to suggest that it's indicative of football and the media generally.
29 May 05
Fair enough- but we were talking about that particular final, so I don't think I was being unfair on one side. Milan are, of course, famous for being "fortunate", and that is but one of the reasons they are so disliked as a team. You'd have to have felt some sympathy for the likes of Paolo Maldini on the night, though.
I, of course, realise everyone gets up to that kind of dodgy behaviour, and with the money that's at stake in the professional era of today, can you blame them?
I just think it does terrible damage to a wonderful sport. That's my point.
Anyway, fair play to you, mate. You seem a decent chap, and I think we were working at cross purposes in this discussion. I'm off to have a pint. Take it easy.