27 Sep 07
Honestly you people can't be serious. So you're telling me that if you were playing in a chess site were everything you got to show for your sucess is a number you won't agree on a draw with your son? Either I'm a wimp or I'm a wimp...
I can see myself doing that with my girl and my daughter, when she's old enough, but I guess they are few of us like that.
27 Sep 07
Originally posted by LoletteDo I have any grounds for financial compensation for the emotional damage that I have suffered as a result of a top-flight player accepting an early draw against his son?
Even for your son? You are father now, i sure if your son ask for a draw you will give him. why not? and plus you should see that he didnt do this usual, and why he accept friendly game from low rated 😕
- LoLLe
I doubt I shall sleep tonight & may incur further fiscal difficulties if I am signed off work sick.
The only way to solve the problem is to create an escrow account & have Seadevil pay into it at regular intervals to cover my costs. Also, his 15 year old son can come & clean my car once a week.
That should suffice.
27 Sep 07
Originally posted by adam warlockIf I'd play someone who's much better than me, no matter whether it's a stranger or a family member, I would absolutely hate it if I'd notice that xe's letting me get a win or a draw undeservedly. That would feel condescending to me.
Honestly you people can't be serious. So you're telling me that if you were playing in a chess site were everything you got to show for your sucess is a number you won't agree on a draw with your son? Either I'm a wimp or I'm a wimp...
I can see myself doing that with my girl and my daughter, when she's old enough, but I guess they are few of us like that.
27 Sep 07
1 edit
Originally posted by NordlysI can see that. But imagine it the other way around. Your kid, much younger than you.
If I'd play someone who's much better than me, no matter whether it's a stranger or a family member, I would absolutely hate it if I'd notice that xe's letting me get a win or a draw undeservedly. That would feel condescending to me.
I'm just guessing here but I guess the fact that he was his son, and maybe got some more important games going on here afected his decision... And I'm guessing that the he can probably can play a lot of otb with his son affected his decision. But I'm just guessing
But all of this discussion because of this just seems to be ridiculous. I mean I saw a lot of posts on this thread and expected it to be interesting and then all I got is a discussion of the possible motives of someone drawing a game with his son... 😞
But do you feel cheated or something in all of this?
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27 Sep 07
Originally posted by Nordlysat any game - the better player is free to try something risky that they wouldn't normally play, to see what happens. "Giving" a draw or easy win is maybe different; if you play tennis, badminton etc. to hit something that's going out isn't such a sin surely - it lets the weaker opponent improve.
If I'd play someone who's much better than me, no matter whether it's a stranger or a family member, I would absolutely hate it if I'd notice that xe's letting me get a win or a draw undeservedly. That would feel condescending to me.
27 Sep 07
Originally posted by pineapple42That's different. If you agree to a draw against a much weaker player in a position that is about equal, you don't try anything risky, and you don't give your opponent an opportunity to improve. Not that I can't think of valid reasons why someone would do that nonetheless - Korch gave some examples - but being related just doesn't seem like a good reason to me.
at any game - the better player is free to try something risky that they wouldn't normally play, to see what happens. "Giving" a draw or easy win is maybe different; if you play tennis, badminton etc. to hit something that's going out isn't such a sin surely - it lets the weaker opponent improve.
27 Sep 07
Originally posted by adam warlockHere is what I thought, wondered, and learned.
I can see that. But imagine it the other way around. Your kid, much younger than you.
I'm just guessing here but I guess the fact that he was his son, and maybe got some more important games going on here afected his decision... And I'm guessing that the he can probably can play a lot of otb with his son affected his decision. But I'm just guessing
Bu ...[text shortened]... meone drawing a game with his son... 😞
But do you feel cheated or something in all of this?
First off, a player wonders WHY it is a draw. Probably looking at the position baffled.
Next, and explanation is given. That is the child of the higher rated player.
RN seems to think that is an explanation, to me... it was not. My dad isn't better than me, and doesn't play here. If I had a relative here who was rated higher than me I wouldn't want them giving me a draw just because we're relatives. I wanted to know why RN thinks that's any kind of an explanation for the situation.
I believe this game will eventually go into the RHP Game Explorer. Will someone follow the line thinking they have a drawn game, only to find the game was drawn because someone wanted to 'help' their child?
I still feel if games are going to be friendly, they shouldn't be played as rated games. As petty as it seems, someone still got rating points for nothing. If this doesn't mean anything, why have player tables at all at RHP?
Next someone explains to me that perhaps the game was close enough that the higher rated player let it go as a draw. Congratulations, you were even enough long enough with me that we'll call it a draw and move on. This is only one time, it's not like it happened several times.
So, I was a bit confused by this and wanted some answers and got some. I'm fine with it, but I wouldn't want to see this continue as a trend with these players.
I'm fine with the draw, perhaps it was a mental boost for the kid... the kid did well enough to stay even longer than I would with Seadevil. I certainly wouldn't want to see this situation become a trend.
I also still wonder what RN means when he said, "[That explains it]". Being related didn't really explain much in my mind or some other users here.
P-
27 Sep 07
1 edit
I don't see a problem with it. I'm sure when seadevil accepted/offered the draw, he wasn't thinking about the rating points. It's a once-off. He won their other game.
We see far greater abuse of the rating system from people resigning games en-mass to "clear their gameload".
I would suggest, though, to remove any grounds for complaint or suspicion, that he plays unrated games against his son in future.
27 Sep 07
Originally posted by PhlabibitI can understand that, but all the time I'm thinking they are father and son. I'm guessing they must have talked about the outcome of the game. And when I read what lollete posted I thought: "Ah, ok" and lacking a better word that explained it (explained is a really a bad word here). I guess I can say it made sense on my head. But I think that people are just too fired up by this.
Here is what I thought, wondered, and learned.
First off, a player wonders WHY it is a draw. Probably looking at the position baffled.
Next, and explanation is given. That is the child of the higher rated player.
RN seems to think that is an explanation, to me... it was not. My dad isn't better than me, and doesn't play here. If I had a relat ...[text shortened]... related didn't really explain much in my mind or some other users here.
P-
I'll say it again: I saw this thread on the beginning and saw that the rating difference was big and that the game was about equal. Two thoughts came to my mind.
1- The higher rated guy could have played longer because it was probable that the other guy could slip up
2- but then again what if he didn't slip up? After all how can we know the 1500, or whatever is rating was, was a define sign of his strenght? In that case maybe the draw was best. But then I saw lolletes post and that closed the deal for me.
Ratings are part of rhp and I give them their due, don't get me wrong, as we speak I'm trying to get my rating higher but my main goal is to improve my chess knowledge.
I'm just a bit disapointed that on a thread that was about a complicated chess position only one poster really looked into the position and shared his thoughts with us. If I could analyze positions I would try to do it too, but as a patzer all I can say is that it looked pretty equal to me and if we add the fact that they are father and son this all ordeal seems less spooky to me.
And let me say again that I totally understand the view of don't wanting to be patronised, I guess I wouldn't like to be too, but ultimately it's their call.
🙂