Originally posted by WulebgrExactly!Now my point is,when you look at the bare moves,there's no difference wether you analysed before,during or after.It's the engine,not you.Heck,the game even starts with moves that are not yours.Without theory,we'd see a lot more of 1.h3 and 1.a4 etc...
I believe this process is entirely different than having the engines run while I play. It is a form of study, training, practice, research. Anyone who wants to work at it can double the size of the largest commercial databases--adding games from RHP, ICC, RWBC, and so on. The complexity of chess remains such that computers are still a long way from removing ...[text shortened]... ulate moves is forbidden (some correspondence organizations, such as ICCF, permit engine use).
It's a mere question of ethics.You have to draw the line somewhere,right?And,btw,I agree with where the line is drawn.
Hello.
Few month ago I raised the topic about cheating. The topic is closed now. But you can read whole story here http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=10125
Now I meet one player here again: seanpbutler. I look on his profile. He droped around 200 points in last months. I think it is hard to believe if he didn't use chess software to achieve top of the player tables. I would like to ask him in public:
seanpbutler, Did you use chess software before to play here with us?
I think a 200 point fluctuation in itself needn't cause any suspicions.
My own rating fluctuates just as wildly, usually it's when I feel that I'm on a losing streak and I've decided to resign a spate of games that I feel are heading towards lost positions or sometimes I'll resign a game to end a won clan challenge to bag the points for my clan.
Also, I hardly ever beat players rated over 2000. However, as I'm active in a lot of tournaments and games for my clan I play lots of games against them. Some people are happy to play above their comfort zone even if it means losing, to me it seems the best way to learn and improve.
Other people also lose a lot of games through being timed out which could cause similar drops in their ratings.
Originally posted by pcaspianYes, it is cheating... You can only use databases or books for CC
Curious... assuming I have a chess program to which I can import a certain possition and it then goes off and plays against itself to determine a winner.
If this program reports to me the possible moves it made and the percentage of times it won vs lost with that variation, would this be cheating ?
1) His graphic is not smooth. If you will resighned all games in one package the graphic will smooth.
To drop 200 points in last 3 month is impossible for me. I dropped like that when I was not be able to play here. My graphic is smooth.
2) I think we can't use books and databases too.
It wouldn't be smooth if you play over 100 games at a time, you finish 10 games in one weekend, 5 you win to lower rated players and 5 your lose to higher rated players, that won't make for a smooth graph. People win games by time out as well as lose them, my graph has taken a sudden sharp rise cos I've timed out a few higher rated players recently.
Your own graph rises and falls by 100 to 200 points a few times before your big slump due to time outs. You can't just look at the graph alone you have to dig into the games and check them.
As for not using books and databases, well that's just not true, RHP (and correspondance chess) allows it, so that's irrelevant.
Originally posted by sergen1976Hi,
Hello.
Few month ago I raised the topic about cheating. The topic is closed now. But you can read whole story here http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=10125
Now I meet one player here again: seanpbutler. I look on his profile. He droped around 200 points in last months. I think it is hard to believe if he didn't use chess software ...[text shortened]... ike to ask him in public:
seanpbutler, Did you use chess software before to play here with us?
My mother in law has died and my father in law has parkinson's.
i spend my spare time looking after him.
I am doing the london marathon to raise money for parkinson's.
My elso was 2200 and I played for West London Chess Club.
Drunken Knights. Hayes, Harrow Eascoste. (all at the same time)
I used to live for chess but not now. I might even be in the grading book.
Thanks. Your comments have been a gret help.
Originally posted by seanpbutlerI also forgot to mention I have had lessons one-one from Nigel Davies and Daniel King over a number of years.
Hi,
My mother in law has died and my father in law has parkinson's.
i spend my spare time looking after him.
I am doing the london marathon to raise money for parkinson's.
My elso was 2200 and I played for West London Chess Club.
Drunken Knights. Hayes, Harrow Eascoste. (all at the same time)
I used to live for chess but not now. I might even be in the grading book.
Thanks. Your comments have been a gret help.
I have also played in the British League. I started playing chess at the age of 8. But never had lessons until to late.
It was Bobby Fisher that got me into chess and my brother. It was always beat your brother at chess. But when I beat him at chess it he took up squash.
I later life I took up squash and played 3 times a day for 6 months and challanged him to a game. I lost. :-)) He has also passed on but I always look back and smile when I think how important it was for me to beat him then.
I have had to step down from London Calling but thank mockfrog for stepping in for me. I still play the odd game for eastcote and if you are ever in london I will be more than happy to meet up and play a game OTB.
I must admit I am a little obsessive (goes with chess) and have a few games that I look at all the time on the way to work. But most of the games I drop bits and don't give a dam. Ces't la vie.
I suggest you start your witch hunt in another direction. Good luck with the hunt. Ohh and by the way it's going to be ilegal soon to hunt with dog's in England.
Originally posted by sergen1976Sergen,
Again fans defence another player not having any clue what player does. Do you know that player personally? Do you stand behind his back when he does the moves? Why some peolpe believe even if somebody says: the snow is red?
I don't really understand what point you are trying to make here. I am not a fan of seanpbutler. I presume you didn't actually mean that word?! I happen to have played him many times, as our clans used to battle regularly. I know he is a strong player who I have chatted to in our games and I have absolutely no reason to suspect him of what you are accusing him of.
Your only "evidence" so far has been that his graph isn't smooth and that he's dropped 200 points. I have pointed out that you and I also have pretty uneven graphs and have both fluctuated by a couple of hundred points since playing here. So I put it to you that simply looking at someones graph isn't evidence enough to accuse someone of cheating.
As I said people who play many games win and lose by time out often, their graphs will go up and down, if you really have your doubts then analyse specific games and show proof. Or better still don't go against the TOS and the Admins wishes by making such groundless accusations in the forums and just be patient and wait for the Chess Moderators to make your case to.
Exy
I am confused about the way the computer would be used. If you are playing a game on RHP and import a position from that game before the game is finished and have the computer analyze it at all, you are cheating. If you use the computer to create a database before you start a game, or to analyze a common position you will likely encounter again before you start a game, it is not cheating, probably.
This is my intepretation anyway. It really depends on Russ and how the rule is written.
Originally posted by pcaspiani just watched the simpsons ... bart was saying something like this to lisa: "i am going to swing my arms round and round and walk towards you, if you happen to get hit it is not my fault."
Curious... assuming I have a chess program to which I can import a certain possition and it then goes off and plays against itself to determine a winner.
If this program reports to me the possible moves it made and the percentage of times it won vs lost with that variation, would this be cheating ?
Originally posted by mateuloseI don't understand, I thought this was the way that the cheats were actually cheating? (rather than a more sophisticated way as you say) what are the cheats actually doing then?
Yes, just cheating of a more sophisticated version that would be harder to detect, unlike mr.obvious JW. I hate to say it, but I suspect a good chunk of top rated players actually do this and they'll never get caught, but let's not get into that. Russ, mods, I suggest you delete this thread for safety, as this cheating strategy will just give players good ideas to cheat and avoid geting caught, I don't want this public.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThat's how I see it as well.
I am confused about the way the computer would be used. If you are playing a game on RHP and import a position from that game before the game is finished and have the computer analyze it at all, you are cheating. If you use the computer to create a database before you start a game, or to analyze a common position you will likely encounter again befo ...[text shortened]... bly.
This is my intepretation anyway. It really depends on Russ and how the rule is written.
What if I asked for help from a friendly GM about playing the Dragon. He helps me sort things out. Later I play a game in which positions he helped me analyse occur. I play the moves he showed me. I win. Did I cheat?
Now say you replace friendly GM with computer. Does that change things?
I have a very large database of games on my computer. Often I reach positions that have been played before in GM games. I can see that if a certain move is played then I have good winning chances whereas if I play another it often results in a loss. I play the move that seems good from the database. It wins me the game. Did I cheat?
Now say instead of a database of GM games I had a database of games played between computers. Does that change the situation?
Why just because a computer was used in pregame (not pregame not during game) analysis rather than a book or a tutor is it cheating?