12 May 12
Originally posted by vipiuIf we're going to make such a comparison
forgive me for not enjoying a WCh game where after probably like 15 moves of theory(probably 15 for them as I also knew about first 11 out of them) I saw the players doing 10 more moves in about 2 hours before agreeing for another relative short draw...
They should be forced to play until move 40 or so...most mistakes use to come around that move...in time tr ...[text shortened]... players still play for 90 minutes, even the final result is a draw, which I totally agree with.
-football matches often have a 15 minute 'studyround' where both sides probe here and there to see what the other side has in store
-did you see Barcelona-Chelsea?The side that wanted to play lost
-I've seen many matches where nothing happens and afterwarsd I wished they'd ended after 20 minutes
Although I don't find it so boring I'm not delighted either.But I understand them starting cautious.What would you do?
12 May 12
Originally posted by Wilfriedvain Fide position: make slightly faster control games, enforce Sofia rules, maybe change WCh format (to get players like Carlsen in...),take away the champion right to play directly the final, etc
If we're going to make such a comparison
-football matches often have a 15 minute 'studyround' where both sides probe here and there to see what the other side has in store
-did you see Barcelona-Chelsea?The side that wanted to play lost
-I've seen many matches where nothing happens and afterwarsd I wished they'd ended after 20 minutes
Although I ...[text shortened]... oring I'm not delighted either.But I understand them starting cautious.What would you do?
in players' position: probably nothing different, it is not their fault that they are cautious and that they play less wild, as this would fit less their styles. It is perfectly fine that they are doing their best to get the title in the boundaries of the rules.
13 May 12
Originally posted by vipiuSofia rules: yes,why not
in Fide position: make slightly faster control games, enforce Sofia rules, maybe change WCh format (to get players like Carlsen in...),take away the champion right to play directly the final, etc
in players' position: probably nothing different, it is not their fault that they are cautious and that they play less wild, as this would fit less their styles. I ...[text shortened]... perfectly fine that they are doing their best to get the title in the boundaries of the rules.
different format: ok,though I forgot what Carlsen's objection was
defeat reigning champion: I used to think the champ had an unfair advantage.Nowadays I don't know.There's a rich history of matchplay to consider,and if I were a contender I think I'd like to become part of that.
Faster time controls: No.All that will acomplish is to bring down the level of play.I don't want to sacrifice that just in the hope of having less short draws.It might boomerang too!
13 May 12
Originally posted by Pacifiqueif there are boring drawish positions they can play them fast without any problem so it would not take much longer.
Do you want both players to play boring, drawish positions until only kings are on the board?
Until now, Sofia rule was useful, many easy to play, boring, drawish positions proved to be not so easy and not so drawish when the GMs had to play them for 15 moves more..they often blundered.
If we take it to extreme, we do not want to have them to tell us in one day: initial chess position is drawish, so no need to play a single move, it is a boring, drawish position. So today the draw was agreed in 0 moves!
Originally posted by vipiuif there are boring drawish positions they can play them fast without any problem so it would not take much longer.
if there are boring drawish positions they can play them fast without any problem so it would not take much longer.
Until now, Sofia rule was useful, many easy to play, boring, drawish positions proved to be not so easy and not so drawish
If we take it to extreme, we do not want to have them to tell us in one day: initial chess position is drawish, so no ...[text shortened]... o play a single move, it is a boring, drawish position. So today the draw was agreed in 0 moves!
Will it be more interesting for spectators? I would like to see how fast would you play on such a high stake.
Until now, Sofia rule was useful, many easy to play, boring, drawish positions proved to be not so easy and not so drawish when the GMs had to play them for 15 moves more..they often blundered.
If position can be won only due to your opponent`s blunder, it`s drawish. I see you don`t care about quality, but I care and I don`t want WC games to be decided by blunders like game 8 of Anand-Topalov match, to say nothing of the fact that such a games are exceptions. You may look at position from game 10 from the same match for example:
White (Topalov) to move. The position is dead draw in GM level, as White lack options to exploit bishop pair and d=pawn can be blocked easily. Instead of that Topalov continued to play extra 32 moves. I don`t know about you but I was really bored to watch such a chess masturbation - result of Topalov`s attempts to follow Sophia rules.
Here is the whole game:
If we take it to extreme, we do not want to have them to tell us in one day: initial chess position is drawish, so no need to play a single move, it is a boring, drawish position. So today the draw was agreed in 0 moves!
What are you drinking or smoking?
13 May 12
Originally posted by Pacifiqueyou play to win the game! If you cannot win, you play not to lose the game! what's the
[b]if there are boring drawish positions they can play them fast without any problem so it would not take much longer.
Will it be more interesting for spectators? I would like to see how fast would you play on such a high stake.
Until now, Sofia rule was useful, many easy to play, boring, drawish positions proved to be not so easy and not so ...[text shortened]... y the draw was agreed in 0 moves!
What are you drinking or smoking?[/b]
deal?
13 May 12
Originally posted by PacifiquePlease refer only to chess topic and stop referring to my person. This is "only chess" forum.
[b]if there are boring drawish positions they can play them fast without any problem so it would not take much longer.
Will it be more interesting for spectators? I would like to see how fast would you play on such a high stake.
Until now, Sofia rule was useful, many easy to play, boring, drawish positions proved to be not so easy and not so ...[text shortened]... y the draw was agreed in 0 moves!
What are you drinking or smoking?[/b]
Also there is no need for rude comments like "chess masturbation - result of Topalov`s attempts to follow Sophia rules."
And yes, many of the chess spectators(including me) consider much more fun Topalov's attempts to win that position than agreeing a fast draw in 25 moves after 15 moves of theory and one hour of chess, especially in a match where the players get about 100 000$ for every played game. They need to do a bit for the sponsor and for the spectators as well...Probably it is just a matter of time until Sofia rules will be employed in every single chess game.
13 May 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOf course. But could you explain the point of making players to continue game when the position is dead draw and both of them don`t see options to play for win (like in game 10 Anand-Topalov match) ?
you play to win the game! If you cannot win, you play not to lose the game! what's the
deal?
13 May 12
3 edits
Originally posted by vipiuWho entitled you to speak for others? I may make such a claim too about "many of the chess spectators(including me)" considering such a play as nonsense. During that game I`ve read many disrespectful online comments on Topalov & his "stupid Sofia rules".
Please refer only to chess topic and stop referring to my person. This is "only chess" forum.
Also there is no need for rude comments like "chess masturbation - result of Topalov`s attempts to follow Sophia rules."
And yes, many of the chess spectators(including me) consider much more fun Topalov's attempts to win that position than agreeing a fast draw ...[text shortened]... it is just a matter of time until Sofia rules will be employed in every single chess game.
And learn chess history, before dreaming about "Sofia rules employed in every single chess game" - in 1962 FIDE implemented rule against draws by agreement in fewer than thirty moves, with the tournament director allowing them in exceptional circumstances. In 1963 draws by agreement before thirty moves were forbidden, and the penalty was forfeit by both players. Tournament directors were to investigate draws by repetition to see if they were to circumvent the rule. In 1964 this rule was dropped because it had not encouraged aggressive play. In fact many players got around this rule by intentional threefold repetition. Even Fisher said "I know better than FIDE or anyone else when the position is a draw."
13 May 12
My proposition for a new WC match format.
He who is the first to win 6 games is champion.draws do not count and no draws can be made before 40 moves are played.
Now,this way whoever wins the current match,Anand or Gelfand,remains champion 'till the day they die.Then we can have a massive knock-out tourney,open to all,every 3 or 4 years to determine the new champion.
FIXED!! 😀
13 May 12
Originally posted by Pacifiquemaybe a simple internet voting poll on Sofia rule would clarify such things...
Who entitled you to speak for others? I may make such a claim too about "many of the chess spectators(including me)" considering such a play as nonsense. During that game I`ve read many disrespectful online comments on Topalov & his "stupid Sofia rules".
And learn chess history, before dreaming about "Sofia rules employed in every single chess game" ...[text shortened]... . Even Fisher said "I know better than FIDE or anyone else when the position is a draw."
And times are changing...something that was not fit for 60s can be very well fit now.
13 May 12
Originally posted by vipiuWhat has changed to prevent players from threefold repetition today? Even Topalov has used this option in the first tournament with Sofia rules.
maybe a simple internet voting poll on Sofia rule would clarify such things...
And times are changing...something that was not fit for 60s can be very well fit now.
Isn`t it exciting game? 😀
13 May 12
The chess rules are what they are, and it seems to me that to try to mold or shape the nature of the world championship contest to conform to a particular style of play will only limit match strategies, bias the conditions in favor of certain players, and stifle creativity and diversity in the venue.
One person's boring draw is another person's exciting "game on a tightrope" draw, and the wild tactical slugfest can also be construed as a simply sloppy defensive game, depending on the perspective.
Sometimes we make the mistake of judging games in a vacuum, rather than in the context of the entire match, and our opinions of any of the games could vary dramatically as the match progresses. It should be very interesting to see where the rest of the games take us!