03 Jun 06
Originally posted by FabianFnasScience would tell you to not believe one thing or another, but to just question. Religion would tell you to believe something. As you have stated that you believe one thing over another, you are talking religion and not science.
Are we talking science or religion?
03 Jun 06
[/i]Originally posted by FabianFnas[/i]Therefore I say clearly that it is my belief, not that I'm sure of this or that.
I believe in only our universe.
If there is other universes they are certainly not parallel with ours.
My decisions will not create other universes.
That's my belief.
Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
You can't say that there are no universes parallel with ours and be sure of that statement, because you don't have a clue.
03 Jun 06
Originally posted by FabianFnasWhen we are not sure of which theory best describes reality we are allowed to hold one of them over another theory. That is what I mean by believe.
Are we talking science or religion?
Originally posted by Gastel
Science would tell you to not believe one thing or another, but to just question. Religion would tell you to believe something. As you have stated that you believe one thing over another, you are talking religion and not science.
Why I asked about religion or science is that religion states very clearly that there are other realities than ours. They call it heaven and hell. Thay can be described as parallel universes. These people are more sure of their beliefs than the scientists are. Therefore my question "Are we talking science or religion?".
04 Jun 06
Originally posted by FabianFnasI believe only in our Universe and am one of the most atheistic people you could ever hope to come across, I actively dislike religion because of how utterly absurd it is. If you disagree with me, don't bother having a go at me for it, neither of us will change our mind, and due to the nature of your illogical beliefs there is little point in having a structured argument with you. Anyway back to the universe(s) I'm open to these possibilities:
I believe in only our universe.
If there is other universes they are certainly not parallel with ours.
My decisions will not create other universes.
That's my belief.
Are we talking science or religion?
Firstly, and as I have already brushed on, and I think it was Gastel informed me, we are currently (probably) in the 8th big bang/ big crush cycle of the universe, and I wouldn't be against calling them parallel universes, especially with the theory that all time is an illusion, similar to a film, we usually see the film, unaware of the cells, all the cells exist throughout the film, but we see them sequentially, thus we perceive them as if they are moving, and there are a few theories knocking about off the back to Einstein’s theory of relativity that this is the case with normal time. Although this isn’t what I understand most people think of when they think of parallel universes, I’d say it was fairly parallel. This whole post started off because of my musings on what we actually meant when we said parallel universes.
Secondly, the “universes being created when you make a decision” idea is both taken out of context and bastardised. The theory, as I understand it has no scientific basis, and is more like a Library of Babel thought experiment. Not only that, but the emphasis of the idea is misplaced too often. You don’t create a universe when you make a decision, it says that there is a universe that is exactly like this right up until you make that decision, a way to visualise the concept of infinite universes. Similar to the Library of Babel the book that starts “AAAB” did not cause the creation of the book that starts “AAAC” but up until the fourth letter the books are identical, and if you read them simultaneously they would be obviously split there.
I’m sorry if I haven’t explained myself well enough, its been a long day and I need sleep, if I have skipped something bring it to my attention and I’ll try to go over it properly.
Dominic sleep now.
04 Jun 06
thespacemonkey says: "I’m sorry if I haven’t explained myself well enough"
Yes, you are right, you are not very clear of what you're trying to say. Some things of what you say I agree, other things I disagree.
thespacemonkey says: "I actively dislike religion"
You may have what religion (or none religion) as you want as long as you let others have theier faborite religion, I don't dispute you there.
thespacemonkey says: "I understand it"... parallel universes?) ..." has no scientific basis"
You dont beleive in the concept of Heisenberg cat dead/alive paradox? Some scientists do.
thespacemonkey says: "we are currently (probably) in the 8th big bang/ big crush cycle of the universe"
I take that as a joke. Don't you?
04 Jun 06
Originally posted by FabianFnasFabian -
thespacemonkey says: "I’m sorry if I haven’t explained myself well enough"
Yes, you are right, you are not very clear of what you're trying to say. Some things of what you say I agree, other things I disagree.
thespacemonkey says: "I actively dislike religion"
You may have what religion (or none religion) as you want as long as you let others have th ...[text shortened]... e 8th big bang/ big crush cycle of the universe"
I take that as a joke. Don't you?
1) If TSM explained things that you don't agree with, that doesn't mean xhe didn't explain it properly.
2) Actively disliking religion is a valid option. Don't put words in his mouth by suggesting that he would allow others to have their favorite religion. This is not the forum to contradict religions in my opinion (because this is supposed to be a safe environment for playing chess), but that does not mean there aren't forums elsewhere.
3) The 8th bang / crush cycle is just a hypothesis from a canadian source. It doesn't have any proof (to my knowledge) or counter-proof. Like many things in this thread, the reader takes in the information and decides if it is valid enough to retain.
This thread needs to diverge from the religious as it is a scientific discussion. The discussion should not be about 'faith' but about what information people have heard and what they think.
I'm surprised Fabian, because you are usually very level headed and salient in your posts.
04 Jun 06
What I am trying to say is that I definately do not believe in parallel universes; in the sense they are often portrayed in sci-fi, and frankly I hadn't really thought about them untill I made this thread. The thread was really to explore what the definition of a parallel universe is, that and to share an inconsistancy with the term and throughout the course of the post I have thought about it more.
I think that parallel universes are viable, if the big bang/ big crush theory is correct, just viable, I'm not preaching them, and also, given the definition I am using, prehaps calling theses future and past universes parallel is incorrect, as they would essentially be made up of all the atoms of the universe preceding it. I have no hard and fast opinions on the matter, nor am I trying to preach anything.
Thus is the nature of true science.
04 Jun 06
Originally posted by Gastel(1) He suggested himself that he was a bit unclear. Has nothing to do if this theory is true or not, nor the fact if I agree with him or not.
Fabian -
1) If TSM explained things that you don't agree with, that doesn't mean xhe didn't explain it properly.
2) Actively disliking religion is a valid option. Don't put words in his mouth by suggesting that he would allow others to have their favorite religion. This is not the forum to contradict religions in my opinion (because this is suppose ...[text shortened]... surprised Fabian, because you are usually very level headed and salient in your posts.
(2) I think that atheists deserve as much respect as any other believers. And believers deserves also deserves respect.
(3) Since no information can flow from one cycle throu a big crunch / big bang event, no one can really know how many cycle has been before our universe. From where comes the information? Perhaps I don't know enough of the theory... But to me it feels like a joke.
I had a question about parallel universes - "Are we talking science or religion" - because in certain religions parallel universes is a reality. In science it is only a hypothesis.
It is difficult to discuss religious beliefs in a site where you can find people from all over the globe whit various religions and from various cultures. Therefore I am truly sorry if I have offended anyone.
Another problem I have is that English is not my maternal language. So there is a obvious risk that what I mean is not what I write. Please bear with me on that.