Clan System Request for Proposals

Originally posted by padger
Could you explain in simple terms how this would work

Yes. If your clan challenges clans with similar ratings and wins, your own clan's standing goes up. If your clan challenges clans with lower ratings and wins, your own clan's standing goes up only slightly. If your clan challenges clans with higher ratings and wins or draws, your own clan's rating goes up significantly. Thus, improvement is rewarded, whereas resting on your laurels is not rewarded.

The beauty of it is that it works equally for all rating bands, and all clan sizes, and all time outs.

Originally posted by padger
Further to this olijonson of Star Trek is going
As far as I can see there will be no change and I will not be renewing my subs

i totally agree with you
although changes are welcome far too late to stop RHP being a laughing stock in rival sites.
its like the courts changing the law after a crime has been committed this should have been done last January when it was first revealed.
four clans have ruined the whole year in the clan challenge with blatant collusion
punishments and points removal were handed out in the past but nothing has been done this year, players openly admit and mock and boost but nothing has been done,

No doubt this post will vanish soon just like any who dare to mention the now taboo subject of collusion

new proposals will not stop the cheating that went on last year, points removal will, do it every time problem solved, simple solution to the spoilers

surely integrity means something to those who run the site.

points removal or at least a statement from the owners to why they allowed collusion to happen when they stopped it the past

really simple question, doubt i will get an answer a lot of players would be curious as well

Originally posted by roma45
i totally agree with you
although changes are welcome far too late to stop RHP being a laughing stock in rival sites.
its like the courts changing the law after a crime has been committed this should have been done last January when it was first revealed.
four clans have ruined the whole year in the clan challenge with blatant collusion
punishments and p ...[text shortened]...

really simple question, doubt i will get an answer a lot of players would be curious as well

I totally agree with all you say, Roma. And there are good suggestions from others too.

Originally posted by padger
Further to this olijonson of Star Trek is going
As far as I can see there will be no change and I will not be renewing my subs

I'm very sad olijohnson is going. He knows that.

It's all such a pity.

Originally posted by Forum Moderator
As Russ/Admin has put in the first post.

"All deliberately disruptive/OT posts will be deleted"

This is YOUR chance to suggest some clan system request changes - several posts are not contributing anything to this topic.

If you want changes then suggest them in a civil manner and admin will look to see what they can do - don't waste this chance and drag this thread down into insults.

Why not review what happened in 2016 and simply disqualify the colluding clans? At the very least this would straighten things up and might halt the flood of departures mentioned by padger.

Originally posted by my2sons
sorry but your suggestion will not stop clans from colluding. The reason is that clans can gift points to a specific clan, but play it straight against other clans, thereby avoiding reducing their overall clan rating while rolling over for their favored clan.

The only way to avoid collusion is to limit the number of points any clan can capture from anoth ...[text shortened]... Robbie and his 3 sister clans will find it and exploit it during 2017 as they aptly did in 2016.

I cannot think of any effective means of preventing single-case collusion (that is, a clan giving another clan an easy win but playing it straight with other clans). One can only respond to it after the fact (which prevents nothing). If a minimum number of clan challenges and/or completed challenge games is set, let us say 15 challenges and 50 games, then one-off collusion would probably not affect the final standings significantly.

Repetition of some clan giving some other clan too easy wins can be prevented by limiting the number of same-clan-same-player challenges.

Three feeder clans each giving one clan one too easy wins is easy to spot -- we know who the clans and players are by now. For such a case, it may be useful to create a function similar to tournament director with the power to revoke or roll back illicit gains.

Originally posted by Startreader
Why not review what happened in 2016 and simply disqualify the colluding clans? At the very least this would straighten things up and might halt the flood of departures mentioned by padger.

Removing certain players will not straighten anything up. Players were suspended over a year ago and the situation got worse. What has to happen is that flaws in the system have to be seen to be corrected.

Originally posted by Johannes Goethe
1. a clan should not reject a challenge from a clan which is in the table 1 to 5 steps behind them.
2. The understanding of loopsided games must be covered. A better clan with better players should play with his best players, also when the opponement have not so good players.
3. the ranking by netpoints should throw in the waste of paper bin.
4. T ...[text shortened]... ve the Team.

Last but not least, every draw should forbidden, unitl the 30 move is completed.

Leider nicht verstaendlich. Schick mir deine Vorschlaege als PM; ich werde uebersetzen und neu posten.

Tschuess, moonbus

Originally posted by moonbus
Removing certain players will not straighten anything up. Players were suspended over a year ago and the situation got worse. What has to happen is that flaws in the system have to be seen to be corrected.

The players who were suspended were simply allowed to come back and are still here crowing.

Others including myself were inexplicably banned from the forums for pointing out those misdemeanours. But we didn't walk away. Nor did we start cheating.

It's unhelpful when site admin considers these gross abuses of the site's facilities as mere vendettas. They're anything but.

To solve the problem let dishonest colluding players be removed from the site. This will increase its reputation and restore fairness.

Originally posted by moonbus
I cannot think of any effective means of preventing single-case collusion (that is, a clan giving another clan an easy win but playing it straight with other clans). One can only respond to it after the fact (which prevents nothing). If a minimum number of clan challenges and/or completed challenge games is set, let us say 15 challenges and 50 games, ...[text shortened]... e a function similar to tournament director with the power to revoke or roll back illicit gains.

That has been put forward by me.
Here and on numerous other posts in past threads in the clan forum.

It was called a policing and refereeing system.

No matter how much effort and funding goes into system improvements, someone will always abuse the feature.

My request for a near term solution in the form of a site review of the 2016 clan results is in line with the suggestion I put in.

All other suggestions, while having considerable merit, are longer term solutions likely ready for implementation in 2018.

Site needs to protect their customer base now !!!!

And the sense of urgency appears to be quite apparent.

Originally posted by Startreader
The players who were suspended were simply allowed to come back and are still here crowing.

Others including myself were inexplicably banned from the forums for pointing out those misdemeanours. But we didn't walk away. Nor did we start cheating.

It's unhelpful when site admin considers these gross abuses of the site's facilities as mere vendettas ...[text shortened]... luding players be removed from the site. This will increase its reputation and restore fairness.

You would likely be first on that bus

Originally posted by mghrn55
Note to Russ.

I would like to offer a general comment.
There have been many suggestions that will culminate in a "go forward" solution.
I am confident that whatever is adopted after analysis and costing will result in improvements to the clan feature.
And I applaud the efforts of Russ in stepping forward to push for a solution.
...
There is a poli ...[text shortened]...
I respectfully request a review of the 2016 clan results and a decision one way or the other.

Good post. I concur. Much as I hate to admit it, the honor system has broken down. It may be time to consider instituting a function similar to tournament director or referee or ombudsman to whom appeals could made regarding suspicious activity.

Certain clans are subject to intense scrutiny; I doubt any further dirty trick will go unnoticed for long. What is missing is transparence regarding the policing protocol and its implementation.

In case Russ does not wish get involved in monitoring suspected infractions himself, what does anyone think of electing something like an adjudication committee drawn from clan members or clan captains (excluding parties to any dispute) which would make recommendations to Russ (regarding, for example, rolling back points, annulling challenges, disqualifying clans, or whatever else may be on the menu as possible sanctions)?

Originally posted by moonbus
Removing certain players will not straighten anything up. Players were suspended over a year ago and the situation got worse. What has to happen is that flaws in the system have to be seen to be corrected.

no players got booted or suspended a few got forum bans [me included] for taking the banter too far, some on here can dish it but cant take it.

some great ideas going around, i just think punishments must be handed out, not wanting any one banned but a price must be paid, removing the collusion points would act as a strong deterrent for any clans doing collusion in the future it has happened in the past, so why not now.?

Originally posted by roma45
no players got booted or suspended a few got forum bans [me included] for taking the banter too far, some on here can dish it but cant take it.

some great ideas going around, i just think punishments must be handed out, not wanting any one banned but a price must be paid, removing the collusion points would act as a strong deterrent for any clans doing collusion in the future it has happened in the past, so why not now.?

First correct the flaws in the system and the corrupted standings (collusion points should be annulled, I agree). Then set up a policy for dealing with miscreants. Ad hoc punishments only make people more devious in trying to avoid detection.

Originally posted by moonbus
Good post. I concur. Much as I hate to admit it, the honor system has broken down. It may be time to consider instituting a function similar to tournament director or referee or ombudsman to whom appeals could made regarding suspicious activity.

Certain clans are subject to intense scrutiny; I doubt any further dirty trick will go unnoticed for long. What ...[text shortened]... ng challenges, disqualifying clans, or whatever else may be on the menu as possible sanctions)?I

Let's face facts, if four clans are determined to collude as they did in 2016, regardless of any changes to the clan system implemented for 2017, they can corrupt the clan rankings. I like the idea of an adjudication committee drawn from respected clan leaders to address issues of collusion or sandbagging for that matter and take corrective action. I will say this after many years on this site, if the collusion that occurred in 2016 is allowed to continue in 2017, you can kiss my sweet ass good bye.