Originally posted by padgerIts not a platform for your personal preferences, the thread was started to proffer suggestions on how the present clan system might be fixed and as has been pointed out by moonbus regarding retrospectively punishing clans addresses that matter. I suggest that if you want to contribute something meaningful you stay well clear of people like Roma.
Before you can go foreword you need to find out what went wrong in the first place
This would of course include your particular involvement in it and what should be done about how you achieved it
I agree with roma 45 this should be addressed first
Originally posted by robbie carrobiethankfully moonbus does not run the site, plus i am still waiting on him to explain how eELO or any system will stop collusion. only honour and sportsmanship will stop it, but as that is far too much to ask from certain players
This has already been explained to you by moonbus, if you did not understand what he said i suggest you ask someone for help.
the simple and most obvious option is also the correct one, as its been done before remove collusion points from last year, plus also in the future when collusion is obvious, you even admitted it as part of some sort of protest, your actions have caused players to leave with others soon to follow.
at last this is a proper thread, you cant wriggle out with your usual tactics of turning it into an abuse session. to me and others the clan challenge can#t continue until justice has been done, flap your arms all you want alert post you know the usual stuff when you have been proved wrong
i am all in favour of a ELO system as long as collusion points are removed first lets return integrity and play chess again
Originally posted by roma45How an ELO based system would prevent collusion has been explained in this thread, I suggest that you read through it carefully. This has also been explained to you and I quote,
thankfully moonbus does not run the site, plus i am still waiting on him to explain how eELO or any system will stop collusion. only honour and sportsmanship will stop it, but as that is far too much to ask from certain players
the simple and most obvious option is also the correct one, as its been done before remove collusion points from last year, plus a ...[text shortened]... system as long as collusion points are removed first lets return integrity and play chess again
According to the terms of service at RHP there is no mention of collusion and no definition what constitutes collusion. Neither is there any rule which says it is forbidden. - moonbus
If you need help understanding this then I suggest that you ask someone.
Originally posted by roma45Please read this carefully.
thankfully moonbus does not run the site, plus i am still waiting on him to explain how eELO or any system will stop collusion. only honour and sportsmanship will stop it, but as that is far too much to ask from certain players
the simple and most obvious option is also the correct one, as its been done before remove collusion points from last year, plus a ...[text shortened]... system as long as collusion points are removed first lets return integrity and play chess again
The crucial insight is that collusion is merely a symptom of a fundamental flaw in the way clan standings are calculated. At present, clan standings are based on bulk wins. This tends to favor: a) large clans which play short timeouts and b) clans which play each other over and over again (i.e., collusion).
By pegging clan standings to individuals' ratings, two birds are killed with one stone: both collusion and sandbagging become irrelevant because neither offers any advantage.
The point of pegging clan standings to individuals' ratings is this: whenever a player throws a game, it drops not only his own personal rating, but that of his clan as well. Thus, sandbagging will cease to offer any benefit to the clan and will therefore disappear over the course of time without anyone's having to forbid it or ban anyone.
Furthermore, pegging clan standings to individuals' ratings means that raising a clan's standing would depend on challenging clans with similar, or higher, ratings than one's own; whereas repeatedly thrashing a clan with lower ratings (i.e., collusion) would not raise one's own clan standing appreciably. Thus collusion would cease to offer any incentive because, although one clan can repeatedly feed another clan bulk wins, it cannot do so and maintain its own average rating--and repeatedly beating a clan with ever lower ratings would not appreciably raise the other clan's standing.
Suspensions and points removal will not stop either collusion or sandbagging; they merely re-act to symptoms, after the fact, without addressing the underlying cause (which is how the standings are calculated at present, based on bulk wins). Recalibrating the standings criteria by pegging clan standings to individual ratings will effectively render both phenomena irrelevant before the fact by removing the motivation for them.
Originally posted by robbie carrobiei will ask you as i asked moonbus without an answer
How an ELO based system would prevent collusion has been explained in this thread, I suggest that you read through it carefully. This has also been explained to you and I quote,
According to the terms of service at RHP there is no mention of collusion and no definition what constitutes collusion. Neither is there any rule which says it is forbidden. - moonbus
If you need help understanding this then I suggest that you ask someone.
why did clans get suspended in 2015 for collusion?
why have clans had points removed in the past?
to move forward i am asking the site to put collusion points removal on the table,do it every time, thats my proposal i think that covers what Russ asked for in the opening post. a stronger policing policy
i agree with your ELO but that will not stop collusion
Originally posted by roma45What you are suggesting does nothing to actually improve the system as it stands at present. This is why this thread was created by site admin. If you cannot respect that then this is not the thread for you. I will waste no more time remonstrating with someone that cannot grasp this simple concept.
i will ask you as i asked moonbus without an answer
why did clans get suspended in 2015 for collusion?
why have clans had points removed in the past?
to move forward i am asking the site to put collusion points removal on the table,do it every time, thats my proposal i think that covers what Russ asked for in the opening post. a stronger policing policy
i agree with your ELO but that will not stop collusion
Originally posted by robbie carrobiemy proposal will bring honour and integrity back to the clan challenge plus act as a warning to those who try the wreck the system plus stop players leaving three really good reasons suspensions and points removal have happened before they must happen again
What you are suggesting does nothing to actually improve the system as it stands at present. This is why this thread was created by site admin. If you cannot respect that then this is not the thread for you. I will waste no more time remonstrating with someone that cannot grasp this simple concept.
moonbus or you or me do not decide, it's up to the owners, we have already lost the yearly championship due to engine users be a shame to lose the clan feature and loyal players due to collusion
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRuss will gather the suggestions and start analysis in near future.
What you are suggesting does nothing to actually improve the system as it stands at present. This is why this thread was created by site admin. If you cannot respect that then this is not the thread for you. I will waste no more time remonstrating with someone that cannot grasp this simple concept.
You submitted yours on the first page.
And it merits attention.
Since then you have attempted to shoot down everyone else's ideas.
Nothing more.
I have tried to avoid filling this thread with spam.
But I will make this post once.
You are continually trying to set the focus to meet your own personal agenda.
Your own personal war on sandbagging !!
Russ has to deal with all aspects of the operation of this site.
That includes sandbagging. Which occurs across the site, including tournaments.
If he addresses sandbagging, he has to address it everywhere !!
He sees the larger picture !!
He also has to deal with a shrinking subscription base.
Which can have multiple root causes.
I will resist getting into that.
And he has to manage technological advances in IOS, Android, etc.
He does not need to read about personal agendas.
Please stop trying to make this all about sandbagging in your narrow scope !!
Thank you.
