@sonship: The trinity doctrine and salvation

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun fo ...[text shortened]... xamples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

https://gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

As I explained to both whodey and Suzianne, this thread is not about what the trinity is, nor is it about the deity of Christ (which for the purposes of this thread, is accepted), it's about whether or not believing in the doctrine of the trinity itself is essential for salvation. Why this question seems to be either something trinity believers refuse to answer or seems to be incapable of understanding is quite interesting.

Originally posted by divegeester
Why this question seems to be either something trinity believers refuse to answer or seems to be incapable of understanding is quite interesting.

Some trinity believers.

I think it's a kind of 'my dogma can beat seven colours of daylight out of your dogma, mate' and 'you are going to get hung out (burning) on chains as a warning to the inhabitants of other planets' kind of holy-underpants-nailed-to-the-mast thing.

Originally posted by divegeester
Sonship you play up the trinity in this forum and I have a question for you on it which you have been dodging for months.

If a Christian/person rejects your version of the trinity teaching entirely, does that mean that they are precluded from having the spirit of Christ and if so, does that mean therefore, that they are not saved?

This is a critical and pivotal doctrinal question regarding what you believe.

Are you asking if someone who has read the Bible and denies that Jesus is God is this prrson unsaved?

I would have to say that according to the Bible this is probably true. Such a person denies that Jesus is Lord.

But it is not our call to make. If this is you, then you will find out after you die. No need to ask another person we all have free will. None of us are making the final decision.

Originally posted by divegeester
We've been here before. I absolutely do not accept that there are three people in the godhead. The teaching is eroneous and in fact pagan in origin. The Lord is ONE, not THREE. This is categorically stated dozens of times in scripture. Hear oh Israel, the Lord you god is ONE.

Nevertheless thank you for at least answering the question, that in your opinion, believing in the trinity teaching is NOT a prerequisite for salvation.

No Christian I know claims that God is Three. God is One. Call it having three 'aspects', if you don't like the word 'persons'.

The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. If you deny this, then I do not see how you can say you believe in the deity of Jesus. If you do not deny this, then yes, you believe in the Trinity. End of story.

Originally posted by divegeester
As I explained to both whodey and Suzianne, this thread is not about what the trinity is, nor is it about the deity of Christ (which for the purposes of this thread, is accepted), it's about whether or not believing in the doctrine of the trinity itself is essential for salvation. Why this question seems to be either something trinity believers refuse to answer or seems to be incapable of understanding is quite interesting.

Yes, but the question of whether a belief in the Trinity is required for salvation seems almost unimportant except maybe to the extremely self-centered.

The Bible seems clear to me; it clearly lays out what is required for salvation and belief in the Trinity as a concept NOR a belief that man does not go to "everlasting torment" after Judgement is a requirement, even though some here would seem to attempt to "make it so". Christians might be reminded that not believing these "side issues" does not make one any less a Christian. It's a simple concept similar to "the clothes do NOT make the man".

But, clearly, any discussion of the Trinity among those who seemingly don't "get it", begs the question of what the Trinity actually is, and what it is not. If one is going to toss words around, especially in derision, one should probably take care to know what those words actually mean.

Originally posted by Suzianne
No Christian I know claims that God is Three. God is One. Call it having three 'aspects', if you don't like the word 'persons'.

The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. If you deny this, then I do not see how you can say you believe in the deity of Jesus. If you do not deny this, then yes, you believe in the Trinity. End of story.

Do I have to accept the doctrine of the trinity as a prerequisite or essentiality to salvation? Yes or no. What's so complicated...

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes, but the question of whether a belief in the Trinity is required for salvation seems almost unimportant except maybe to the extremely self-centered.

The Bible seems clear to me; it clearly lays out what is required for salvation and belief in the Trinity as a concept NOR a belief that man does not go to "everlasting torment" after Judgement is a requ ...[text shortened]... d, especially in derision, one should probably take care to know what those words actually mean.

Is that a yes or a no?

Originally posted by Eladar
Are you asking if someone who has read the Bible and denies that Jesus is God is this prrson unsaved?

I would have to say that according to the Bible this is probably true. Such a person denies that Jesus is Lord.

But it is not our call to make. If this is you, then you will find out after you die. No need to ask another person we all have free will. None of us are making the final decision.

Good grief!

Do I have to accept the doctrine of the trinity as a prerequisite or essentiality to salvation? Yes or no. it's a simple question.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]Some trinity believers.

I think it's a kind of 'my dogma can beat seven colours of daylight out of your dogma, mate' and 'you are going to get hung out (burning) on chains as a warning to the inhabitants of other planets' kind of holy-underpants-nailed-to-the-mast thing.[/b]

What is clear is that there are three possible responses to the question "Do I have to accept the doctrine of the trinity as a prerequisite or essentiality to salvation?"

1) Yes is it essential - for whatever reason the respondent chooses to explain with
2) No it is not essential - for whatever reason the respondent chooses to explain
3) I don't know.

It is obvious (to me at least) that sonship is firmly in the "yes" camp but he cannot (or will not) justify his position and is possibly concerned about exposing another one his Strange Beliefs™ ... and therefore has gone into self-exile.

The rest here either simply don't understand the question or what they believe.

Originally posted by divegeester
Good grief!

Do I have to accept the doctrine of the trinity as a prerequisite or essentiality to salvation? Yes or no. it's a simple question.

I am not God. You will find out eventually.

Originally posted by Eladar
I am not God. You will find out eventually.

Lol.

Originally posted by divegeester
What is clear is that there are three possible responses to the question "Do I have to accept the doctrine of the trinity as a prerequisite or essentiality to salvation?"

1) Yes is it essential - for whatever reason the respondent chooses to explain with
2) No it is not essential - for whatever reason the respondent chooses to explain
3) I don't kno ...[text shortened]... o self-exile.

The rest here either simply don't understand the question or what they believe.

I think it depends on whether your rejection of the trinity includes the total humanisation of Christ. I can't see how you can believe Jesus is God if you don't believe in the trinity and I don't see how you can be saved if you don't believe Jesus is God. Do you reject the trinity but accept Jesus is God?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Do you reject the trinity but accept Jesus is God?

Yes, as I have already stated in this thread several times and indeed dozens of time in discussions in this forum. I am not alone in believing what I do and I'm surprised that you have never considered the doctrine of the trinity in more depth to understand the oneness approach of thinking about the godhead.

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD”
Deuteronomy 6:4

So you are in the "I don't know" camp, right?

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes, as I have already stated in this thread several times and indeed dozens of time in discussions in this forum. I am not alone in believing what I do and I'm surprised that you have never considered the doctrine of the trinity in more depth to understand the oneness approach of thinking about the godhead.

[b]“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD”
Deuteronomy 6:4

So you are in the "I don't know" camp, right?[/b]

Yes. I would say I don't know.

I am interested in how you logically explain the deity of Christ if you don't believe in the trinity? I assume you don't believe you possess a body, soul and spirit yet you are one human being? The idea of unity in diversity doesn't seem too far fetched for me.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Yes. I would say I don't know.

I am interested in how you logically explain the deity of Christ if you don't believe in the trinity? I assume you don't believe you possess a body, soul and spirit yet you are one human being? The idea of unity in diversity doesn't seem too far fetched for me.

How I explain what the Bible calls the "mystery of God in Christ" is irrelevant to the point in question about the need for cognitive acceptance of a non Biblical teaching in order to be saved. It's called a mystery for a reason.

I don't accept the doctrine of the trinity and I do believe in the deity of Christ; perhaps you or one of the others posting in this thread can explain to me why you "don't know" if I am precluded from salvation or not?