@sonship: The trinity doctrine and salvation

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am more interested in what your perception of salvation is, what you are being saved from and how you are going to be saved. Are you in a saved state at present? Questions like these because you keep talking about salvation and its not entirely clear what you mean.

You could perhaps start a thread about the concept of "salvation" that Jehovah's Witnesses believe in and submit it to scrutiny and discussion and comparison.

Originally posted by FMF
You could perhaps start a thread about the concept of "salvation" that Jehovah's Witnesses believe in and submit it to scrutiny and discussion and comparison.

I already know what Jehovahs Witnesses believe but I want to understand divegeesters perspective that's why I asked him. This is directly related to his text and I don't need to start another thread, all he has to do is tell us his concept.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am more interested in what your perception of salvation is, what you are being saved from and how you are going to be saved. Are you in a saved state at present? Questions like these because you keep talking about salvation and its not entirely clear what you mean.

Why don't not you start a thread about it?
Sonship and I, despite out differences will know exactly what we are talking about.

Originally posted by divegeester
Why don't not you start a thread about it?
She ship and I, despite out differences will know exactly what we are talking about.

Why don't you just tell me then? What is your concept of salvation because I have never read anything you have said about it, all you do is mention it as if we are supposed to know already. Lets start here. Are you in a state of salvation at the moment?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Why don't you just tell me then? What is your concept of salvation because I have never read anything you have said about it, all you do is mention it as if we are supposed to know already. Lets start here. Are you in a state of salvation at the moment?

Eternal life. It's not a difficult concept from the Christian perspective.

Originally posted by divegeester
Eternal life. It's not a difficult concept.

Ok so to you salvation means eternal life. So you are being saved from death. Do you believe as some Christians do (sonship I think is among them) that once you accept Jesus you are in a state of salvation at present?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Ok so to you salvation means eternal life. So you are being saved from death. Do you believe as some Christians do (sonship I think is among them) that once you accept Jesus you are in a state of salvation at present?

Yes.

Originally posted by divegeester
Eternal life. It's not a difficult concept from the Christian perspective.

Paul tells Christians saints at Ephesus : For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2:8 KJV). This is the standard verse used by Christians to show that they have eternal life.

However, later on Paul says to these same Christian saints that they will get eternal life IF they are obedient to God and live righteously avoiding a life of sin: But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. (Ephesians 5:3-6 KJV)

It appears to me that 'saved by grace' does not equal 'eternal life in the Kingdom of God.'

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes.

ok, does it not reek to you of Calvinism and predestination? Although admittedly Calvin held the view that one was predestined for what he termed 'the elect', and heavenly glory or those who were destined for eternal torment, but its kind of the same thing surely in that no matter what you do, you are saved.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Ok so to you salvation means eternal life. So you are being saved from death. Do you believe as some Christians do (sonship I think is among them) that once you accept Jesus you are in a state of salvation at present?

Which Jesus?
The Jesus that is God?
Or the Jesus that was the son of God, and not God?
Hence the Trinity question.
Or does in not matter?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Paul tells Christians saints at Ephesus : For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2:8 KJV). This is the standard verse used by Christians to show that they have eternal life.

However, later on Paul says to these same Christian saints that they will get eternal life IF they are obedient ...[text shortened]...

It appears to me that 'saved by grace' does not equal 'eternal life in the Kingdom of God.'

This thread is about the requirement of a belief in the trinity as a prerequisite for salvation, please kindly take your topic to a new thread.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok, does it not reek to you of Calvinism and predestination? Although admittedly Calvin held the view that one was predestined for what he termed 'the elect', and heavenly glory or those who were destined for eternal torment, but its kind of the same thing surely in that no matter what you do, you are saved.

I've given you my answer if you want to discuss your topic further please take it to another thread. Thanks for your cooperation.

Originally posted by divegeester
I've given you my answer if you want to discuss your topic further please take it to another thread. Thanks for your cooperation.

It belongs here, this thread is about salvation. But if you are feeling uneasy about having your beliefs questioned its ok, I will desist.

Originally posted by divegeester
This thread is about the requirement of a belief in the trinity as a prerequisite for salvation, please kindly take your topic to a new thread.

Nope, I dont intend to 🙂. Sonship is ignoring you pal. How long will it take for you to see that. So the thread took another turn and you are answering Robbie on this same issue of what is saved v eternal life. It clearly is not the same thing. I guess its a tough one to answer.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Nope, I dont intend to 🙂. Sonship is ignoring you pal. How long will it take for you to see that. So the thread took another turn and you are answering Robbie on this same issue of what is saved v eternal life. It clearly is not the same thing. I guess its a tough one to answer.

Actually sonship responded on the previous page (4).