A question of honesty

Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]Why don't you look at these two possibilities and see if you can think which one is most likely to fit with the Biblical principles of Christ, atonement, mercy, and forgiveness.

Atonement, mercy and forgiveness seem to apply more to the here and now and heaven than they do to judgement and hell. I don't know how you are able to directly apply at ...[text shortened]... re offend you and do not "ring true", then parts of scripture offend you and do not "ring true".[/b]

Nothing in scripture offends me; what you claim about eternal suffering in hell, I claim is unsupported in scripture. There is no offence in that.

Originally posted by lemon lime
The question of mechanics in the spiritual realm cannot be answered. We are only familiar with how the mechanics of anything might work here in the natural realm.

The discrepancy that there appears to be between the morality and psychology of the realm you and I live in and this other realm that you imagine you will reside in at some point in the future, suggests that some degree of dehumanization (as I termed it in the other post) is involved in going from one to the other.

I think the word "dehumanization" is apt. Terms of reference for our humanity and identity exist in this realm, but you say you don't know how these terms of reference are altered in heaven but it can be argued that the outcome you believe in (despite admitting that you don't know what its moral and psychological underpinning is) involves dehumanization.

Originally posted by FMF
If you can't, that's fine.

[b]If you want to question Gods integrity and sense of fair play, then you are free to do so. If you want to question the integrity and internal consistency of the Bible, then you are free to do so. If you intend to claim you have not been doing this, then pffft liar liar pants on fire.

I am simply questioning you about the coherence of your beliefs as you lay them out here in public.[/b]

Do you define your identity by what the public thinks? Is this a part of who you are?

You're defining your identity (who you are) by all of the external factors in your life. I'm not defining "you" by how you identity yourself (what you think, what you did, what you experienced, what clothes you wear or food you eat). I'm saying you are you... and you cannot become someone else.

Can you someone pinch you and someone else will feel it? That's a really neat trick, but that won't happen here or in heaven... or hell.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Do you define your identity by what the public thinks? Is this a part of who you are?

No. I said I am simply questioning you about the coherence of your beliefs as you have laid them out in this public arena.

Originally posted by divegeester
Nothing in scripture offends me; what you claim about eternal suffering in hell, I claim is unsupported in scripture. There is no offence in that.

What do you mean "what I claim about eternal suffering in hell?" Hell is a holding tank... it won't last forever. It might seem like forever, because time doesn't fly when you're not having fun...

Originally posted by lemon lime
You're defining your identity (who you are) by all of the external factors in your life.

No, I am defining identity as an internal thing comprising a unique knowledge and perception of an ongoing narrative detailing how one's individual personhood has interacted ~ and interacts ~ with external factors, events and other 'personhoods'.

Originally posted by FMF
No. I said I am simply questioning you about the coherence of your beliefs as you have laid them out in this public arena.

Well then, why not read past that first line and try to understand what I was saying? I don't know how you are able to question "the coherence of my beliefs" when you consistently select what you want to answer and ignore the rest.

You're defining your identity (who you are) by all of the external factors in your life. I'm not defining "you" by how you identity yourself (what you think, what you did, what you experienced, what clothes you wear or food you eat). I'm saying you are you... and you cannot become someone else.

Can you someone pinch you and someone else will feel it? That's a really neat trick, but that won't happen here or in heaven... or hell.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Can you someone pinch you and someone else will feel it? That's a really neat trick, but that won't happen here or in heaven... or hell.

So the version of you that gets rinsed of its humanity and deposited in "heaven" can feel a pinch but can't feel regret about the fate of those he loved when he was a human being? 😀

Originally posted by lemon lime
Well then, why not read past that first line and try to understand what I was saying? I don't know how you are able to question "the coherence of my beliefs" when you consistently select what you want to answer and ignore the rest.

I address almost everything you say although I almost invariably ignore the personal remarks you make.

Originally posted by FMF
I address almost everything you say although I almost invariably ignore the personal remarks you make.

I try to ignore your personal remarks, innuendo and insinuations. It's not easy, but I try.

Originally posted by FMF
So the version of you that gets rinsed of its humanity and deposited in "heaven" can feel a pinch but can't feel regret about the fate of those he loved when he was a human being? 😀

What were you saying about coherence? You're mixing and mashing points again.

Originally posted by lemon lime
You're defining your identity (who you are) by all of the external factors in your life. I'm not defining "you" by how you identity yourself (what you think, what you did, what you experienced, what clothes you wear or food you eat). I'm saying you are you... and you cannot become someone else.

If "you" is not "what you think, what you did, what you experienced" and your unique access to and understanding of the sum total of all that (and other stuff too such as your emotional reactions and your intellectual reactions, and your personal perception of them, including how they have changed or how you wish to change them), then what is the substance of your version of "you"?

Originally posted by lemon lime
I don't understand this idea of eternal hand wringing and grief over someone who rejected God, and chose to not be with Him (and you) whether you care about them or not.

This must be one of the most revealing and callous posts I've ever seen in this forum. The lack of compassion and the careless disregard for fellow human beings you display is quite astonishing and probably represents the mindset behind much of the brutal violence carried out in the name of religion.

Originally posted by lemon lime
What were you saying about coherence? You're mixing and mashing points again.

I was bang on target I'd say ~ and you got a smiley added on for safe measure too. 😉

Originally posted by lemon lime
Well then, why not read past that first line and try to understand what I was saying?

I have. See my response.

Your absurd opening line ~ some kind of lame play on words ~ about me defining my identity "by what the public thinks" got short and immediate shrift.