14 Jun 06
5 edits
Originally posted by ChurlantNot so. My analogy fits because as a child you were told that Santa exists, no? You then probably believed this as a result based on others you respect telling you this to be fact. However, it is only later in life as you see lack of evidence of Santa's existence and the fact that your freind begin to tell you that Santa does not exist and the fact the people who told you that he existed don't really seem to believe this, that you begin to question this belief. The belief in God can be similair in that you may have been taught as a child that he exists. However, do to other evidence which seems to contradict his existence such as a parent who does not seem to be "practicing" the beliefs they claim to believe, or your school teaching you about evolution with the implication that God has no part in the scenerio, you may begin to question those beliefs based on these evidences. Conversely, if you have a parent that not only proports to believe in God but also demonstrates that their faith has changed their lives in a meaningful way, this is evidence to contradict the evidence they may see from their nonbelieving friends and secular based education.
Ironic.
Belief in Santa is much like belief in God. We are taught to believe in him. The authority figures around us - immediate family, friends, community - reinforce that faith in Santa. We even get evidence of his existence, once a year, every year.
Eventually we find out there is no real evidence for Santa. Our parents manufacture his visits. Inst dence", we find there is no honest proof for his existence at all. All fraud. Very sad.
-JC
Do you believe that Pluto exists? It is a small dark planet that is largely invisible, no? You do believe it exists as a result of being told it exists by people you respect. You may have also been taught the science behind the evidence that you use to believe this fact such as the math used to discover its existence. There is no voice that inserts doubt into the matter as to its existence. However, if someone you respect tells you that it does not exist and shows you the math or science behind their belief as to why it does not exist, you may change your belief as a result.
Just as a side note, I will conceede that convincing your kids that Santa is real is sad. I don't believe in doing so. I think it, in the end, detracts from the credibility of the sources that they came to such a belief in the first place.
14 Jun 06
2 edits
Originally posted by whodeyYou have a serious problem understanding the difference between "evidence" and "faith".
Not so. My analogy fits because as a child you were told that Santa exists, no? You then probably believed this as a result based on others you respect telling you this to be fact. However, it is only later in life as you see lack of evidence of Santa's existence and the fact that your freind begin to tell you that Santa does not exist and the fact the peo nce behind their belief as to why it does not exist, you may change your belief as a result.
Showing me the math behind Pluto's existence is evidence.
Having a parent who practices their religion is not evidence, it is faith.
So find me a mathematical proof of God's existence and we'll be in business.
-JC
14 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by ChurlantOK, you asked for it. I presented this information on a previous thread.
[So find me a mathematical proof of God's existence and we'll be in business.
-JC[/b]
http://www.preceptaustin.org/daniel_924-27.htm
This web site is about a mathmatical calculation in Daniel 9:24 as to when the Messiah would come. If you read the text, it seems a little obsure and there are those who question the validity of its accuracy. However, rabbi's who calculated the same passage in Daniel wondered why the Messiah delayed in his coming during the time Christ lived and came to the conclusion that it was because of the great sin of Israel. You may not agree with the evidence, but it is evidence none the less.
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by whodeyAs I've already mentioned, you don't seem to have a valid internal definition for "proof."
OK, you asked for it. I presented this information on a previous thread.
http://www.preceptaustin.org/daniel_924-27.htm
This web site is about a mathmatical calculation in Daniel 9:24 as to when the Messiah would come. If you read the text, it seems a little obsure and there are those who question the validity of its accuracy. However, rabbi's who ca ...[text shortened]... he great sin of Israel. You may not agree with the evidence, but it is evidence none the less.
-JC
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by ChurlantPurely physical/mathematical evidence for a transcendent Being? The math doesn’t add up.
You have a serious problem understanding the difference between "evidence" and "faith".
Showing me the math behind Pluto's existence is evidence.
Having a parent who practices their religion is not evidence, it is faith.
So find me a mathematical proof of God's existence and we'll be in business.
-JC
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by HalitoseWhy do you insist on placing so many limitations on just about every topic you touch?
Purely physical/mathematical evidence for a transcendent Being? The math doesn’t add up.
I see no reason why there can't be a physical/mathematical proof for God, depending on the definition being used.
-JC
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by ChurlantThe question is not whether there can be physical/mathematical proof, but rather why there must be such proof. It is not I, but you who have placed the limitation.
Why do you insist on placing so many limitations on just about every topic you touch?
I see no reason why there can't be a physical/mathematical proof for God, depending on the definition being used.
-JC
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by HalitoseI'm not sure exactly where I said there "must" be such proof. If I did so at some point, I officially take it back.
The question is not whether there can be physical/mathematical proof, but rather why there must be such proof. It is not I, but you who have placed the limitation.
-JC
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by ChurlantOriginally posted by Churlant
I'm not sure exactly where I said there "must" be such proof. If I did so at some point, I officially take it back.
-JC
So find me a mathematical proof of God's existence and we'll be in business.
What about philosophical "proofs"? What about historical evidence? Tradition? Personal "spiritual" experiences? Surely they should all count for something.
P.S. Retraction accepted. I'm quite sure anybody who is a little more than nominally religious doesn't merely act on blind faith.
14 Jun 06
2 edits
Originally posted by ChurlantDid I say proof? No, I am talking about evidence. What can you actually prove? Perhaps nothing actually exists? All you have is evidence for things and make conclusions based on this evidence. Let me ask you this if you think it not to be proof, how could such a prophecy come to pass unless foretold by a higher power? You challenged me to find a "mathmatical" evidence and I have provided such. As Halitose rightly points out, there are other "evidences".
As I've already mentioned, you don't seem to have a valid internal definition for "proof."
-JC
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by whodeyI said proof. I said to provide a "mathematical proof" of God, you gave me something else entirely.
Did I say proof? No, I am talking about evidence. What can you actually prove? Perhaps nothing actually exists? All you have is evidence for things and make conclusions based on this evidence. Let me ask you this if you think it not to be proof, how could such a prophecy come to pass unless foretold by a higher power? You challenged me to find a "mathma ...[text shortened]... ence and I have provided such. As Halitose rightly points out, there are other "evidences".
-JC
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by ChurlantYou cannot mathmatically prove a being which you cannot fully comprehend. This is only common sense. However, there are evidences such as the one I provided that become rather uncomfotable to explain away.
I said proof. I said to provide a "mathematical proof" of God, you gave me something else entirely.
-JC
