Spirituality
14 Jun 14
15 Jun 14
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIActually, there are quite a few other verses which have caused serious problems to me and others who hold this world view. For example: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life- NO ONE comes to the Father but by me." All I can say about this verse, (as well as the one you quoted about sinking sand) is that you must make a distinction between Jesus of Nazareth and the Cosmic Christ.
That is an altogether lovely attitude on your part. But it is jarring to me in that I have heard so many sermons preached on the "solid rock of Christ," the bedrock Truth. "All other ground is sinking sand," or as one preacher put it years ago, "a house of cards built on jelly."
"No biggie, let him believe how he wants to" is not a common motif of r ...[text shortened]... ew 7:14. "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
"Christ" was not JC's surname; it was his title.
I confess that I have built my house on the Rock of Christ, and see him as the Way, the Truth and the Life.
About Mat 7,14. In my thread on "Is God more cruel than the worst sadist you know?" I mentioned this picture of the Narrow Way in my grandfather's house in Germany and how it gave me the creeps.
Yet now it makes perfect sense to me: there are INDEED few people that find this narrow way. This way is characterized by self-denial, yes, but (taken together with many other scriptures and teachings, as we always must) by compassion, concern for others, non-dualism, as expounded by many teachers today such as Eckardt Tolle, Richard Rohr, Thomas Keating and Thomas Merton, just to name a few.
It is ALWAYS easier just to take the road of least resistance, the one the crowd follows. It is very difficult to ask the hard questions, and then not to try to save your life, but to lose it - only then will you truly find it.
15 Jun 14
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Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIPaul, I decided to make myself vulnerable in this thread and answer questions that I would normally be very careful about.
But a more modern interpretation is that the sounds coming up to the ground were caused by volcanic gasses burbling their way up, and were not actual Greek words. Any philosopher of the day who decided, "The underground deity is a fiction," is the one we would all side with today. Problem solved. 🙂[/b]
Answered prayer, and "God told me" is very overrated today. God "talks to people" about things (we hear) which tomorrow he contradicts! At the same time, we all know about charlatans and fakes of the Fair Ground variety who claim to be psychics, etc. so talking about REAL encounters with the Divine, is fraught with hazards.
It makes me think of a hypothetical situation: What if I REALLY, honest-to-goodness, cross-my-heart, saw a Flying Saucer land in my back yard (and I wasn't stoned at the time) and conversed with the aliens about this and that. The question is: whom would I tell? Who on earth would believe me?
That is why some experiences (like your namesake being "caught up to the seventh heaven", .) is such a personal experience that he did not want to talk about it at all - not even to his presumably "safe" followers, never mind potential critics.
15 Jun 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyBobby, forgive me, but I assure you that I did not at all want to sound frivolous.
CalJust, an evasive/frivolous segue isn't in keeping with the tone of this thread or your demonstrated capacity for objectivity.
It was you that mentioned "the end of the MILLENNIUM". So I was just a bit puzzled about which millennium you mean.
I am well aware of the passage in Revelation. Maybe we can discuss this some time. (Btw, I am a little concerned that there will be "no more sea", because I really love the seaside very much. Also, "streets paved with gold don't particularly attract me)
However, I am pretty sure that my house, both the bricks and the flesh one, will NOT be around at the end of THIS Millennium (2999) but that my Spirit will be alive.
15 Jun 14
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Originally posted by CalJustVery appealing to me would be a deity who truly functions as a personal friend--but one with knowledge of everything that ever happened and ever will happen.
God "talks to people" about things (we hear)...
"Lord, why did You put generous deposits of easily-accessible pools of low-sulfur petroleum primarily under lands that You knew would be under Islamic control?"
"Lord, if You hate abortion as the bumper stickers say, why do You cause (or at least allow) miscarriages?"
"Father God, if humans deserve pain for disobedience to You, okay then, have it Your way. But do You ever feel guilty about injury, illness and death elsewhere in the animal kingdom?"
"Why did You make the muon have a mass of 206.7682843 times the electron's mass?"
"What is Your purpose for the rest of the Universe beyond our own little biosphere?"
15 Jun 14
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Originally posted by CalJustWhat are your thoughts on the spirit. Will you remember your life on earth? Will you have the same character? Will you be you? If you will be you, then which you, the one you are now, or as you will be the moment before you die, or some other you?
However, I am pretty sure that my house, both the bricks and the flesh one, will NOT be around at the end of THIS Millennium (2999) but that my Spirit will be alive.
'I don't know' is a legitimate answer as are speculations labeled as such.
15 Jun 14
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIYes, questions, questions, questions. I can add quite a few to that list.
"Lord, why did You put generous deposits of easily-accessible pools of low-sulfur petroleum primarily under lands that You knew would be under Islamic control?"
Reminds me of a story of Moses coming down the mountain with the tables of the law. His final parting words:
"God, let me just get this straight: the Arabs get all the oil, and we get to cut off the what?"
15 Jun 14
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Originally posted by twhiteheadMy ideas on the Spirit have also changed a lot over the years. Here are some random thoughts:
What are your thoughts on the spirit. Will you remember your life on earth? Will you have the same character? Will you be you? If you will be you, then which you, the one you are now, or as you will be the moment before you die, or some other you?
'I don't know' is a legitimate answer as are speculations labeled as such.
1 I believe that I AM a Spirit, which lives in a Body, and which HAS a soul. I am not my soul, but my soul is the vehicle (emotion, will, intellect) which expresses the attributes of the Spirit and physically through the body.
But most specifically, I AM NOT my personality, or my emotions and memories, I HAVE these, as far as they serve the Spirit.
The Spirit is my ESSENCE, what I truly am. Through the Spirit I am connected to all living things, including you. As Richard Rohr say: Life is not about me, I am about Life!
2. My Spirit will remember all my "human" memories. There are several verses in the Bible that talk about that, as are Buddhist teachings on Karma. Yet these thoughts will be purified of all regrets and pain, and that is something that is already possible now.
3. One thing that bothers me quite a bit, is that in Heaven we will be "neither male nor female, and not married." I have been married 50 years now, we will celebrate our Golden Anniversary in a few months time. To be without my soul partner would be unthinkable...
4. Also (as I mentioned in the "Eternity" thread,) I really would be upset if "there was no sea", because I really love the sea! And "streets paved with gold?" All that would mean is that gold has become worthless and common. But, seriously, I accept that that must be because THAT was the only way how the writers thought they could describe the indescribable.
Conceptually, a bigger problem to me would be the fact that how can there be Joy without the possibility of Pain? I know that you well understand the excitement of battle, even in verbal duels, where the thrill comes from the risk, the possibility of failure, the adrenaline rush of victory. So where there is no challenge, there can be no satisfaction.
For me, the continuation of the Spirit can only be pleasing, rewarding and joyful, if there is continuous growth, continuously being extended and challenged. So that is what Heaven (for lack of a better word) would mean to me.
So which "ME" will I be, as you ask? I will be the true Essence that I am now, with the same history that brought me to this point, and the same drives that propel me forward.
This is why I also believe that not ALL beings will enjoy this Afterlife, because for some, who have spent their entire "beingness" down here in purely selfish pursuits, that life would be Hell. In Mercy, God will have to let them cease to be, rather than have them endure the torment and remorse.
My son tried to explain to me the Buddhist concept of Hell, which has seven levels, the lowest being the worst and the highest the best, and Beings, (Spirits if you will) can move up and down in accordance with their behaviour. I have some serious problems with that, although that there may be "Gradings", or various Stages in Heaven is definitely alluded to in Scripture. There is talk about "saved just as by fire", i.e. by the skin of your teeth, and then there are "Crowns", which does seem to show that there are different levels of reward.
Bottom line for me is that I do NOT focus on what might happen hereafter. As I said elsewhere, the bulk of Jesus' teaching was the Here and Now, especially in Mathew, where he repeatedly says "The Kingdom of God is here, among you." THIS is where we serve, and where our Spirit grows and is engaged.
God has not finished creating. Daily, we are part of the ongoing creation - every action, every thought is something that did not exist before, and which we help to bring into being.
It is exciting to be alive!
In peace,
CJ
PS: Enjoy your Youth Day tomorrow. I vividly remember being on one of my mining projects on 16 June 1976 when somebody brought the newspaper with the headline: Soweto Burning! and the famous picture of Oscar Peterson. Where you in SA then?
15 Jun 14
Originally posted by CalJustBut the real you would be saddened to see that you are not joined by certain of your loved ones in Paradise, because they went the Other Way.
So which "ME" will I be, as you ask? I will be the true Essence that I am now, with the same history that brought me to this point, and the same drives that propel me forward.
This is why I also believe that not ALL beings will enjoy this Afterlife, because for some, who have spent their entire "beingness" down here in purely selfish pursuits, that life ...[text shortened]... God will have to let them cease to be, rather than have them endure the torment and remorse.
So you must figure that your essence/mind will be tampered with in the afterlife, in order that it will not be saddened. But that means it will not be the authentic "you" living on for eternity, eh?
I sometimes ask believers what personality a baby born with anencephaly will have in the afterlife. This is a condition where the brain stem is present, so that the heart beats for some time, but the rest of the brain is missing from the cranium. The baby dies within a few days of being born.
15 Jun 14
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Originally posted by CalJustI think Paul deals with that issue here :
...To be without my soul partner would be unthinkable.....
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
(1 Corinthians 7:12-15 KJV)
15 Jun 14
Originally posted by Rajk999I think you misunderstood me. That passage deals with divorcing or not an "unbelieving" wife.
I think Paul deals with that issue here :
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified b ...[text shortened]... nder bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
(1 Corinthians 7:12-15 KJV)
My wife is certainly "a believer", we have come this road together and still do everything together. We will definitely be together in the Afterlife. But not married, ah, there's the rub...
Clearly, (and also answering Paul in the previous post) there are certain aspects which we can neither understand nor explain. The entire concept of "living forever" blows the mind. As somebody else said in the "Eternity" thread: who really wants to live forever? Wouldn't you be bored out of your skull? One cannot go down that road too far with our earth-bound brain.
15 Jun 14
Originally posted by CalJustOh .. the married part. Well I take consolation in this verse :
I think you misunderstood me. That passage deals with divorcing or not an "unbelieving" wife.
My wife is certainly "a believer", we have come this road together and still do everything together. We will definitely be together in the Afterlife. But not married, ah, there's the rub...
Clearly, (and also answering Paul in the previous post) there are cert ...[text shortened]... you be bored out of your skull? One cannot go down that road too far with our earth-bound brain.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
What God has prepared for us, we are unable to imagine or comprehend. It must be far better than marriage.
15 Jun 14
Originally posted by Rajk999AMEN, I agree with that verse.
Oh .. the married part. Well I take consolation in this verse :
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
What God has prepared for us, we are unable to imagine or comprehend. It must be far better than marriage.
...as long as there is a nice view over the ocean with the waves breaking on a rocky beach
and birds, there must be birds....
15 Jun 14
Originally posted by CalJustFrom the whole of your life, including what you have already forgotten?
2. My Spirit will remember all my "human" memories.
One thing that I find quite unsettling is that I have been told, that at the house I lived in about 12 years ago, we built a fish pond in the garden. But I cannot recall that fish pond. I don't know where in the garden it was, nor anything about it. I vaguely remember going to buy fish, but I have no recollection whatsoever about the pond.
Now suppose I suddenly recalled everything that had happened to me since the day I was born. Would I still be me? Would I want to recall it all?
Suppose I get alzheimers later in life and start to loose all my memories. Will I still be me?
15 Jun 14
Originally posted by CalJustThis isn't a challenge to your thinking, rather, maybe an addition. I find your thinking to be simular to my own. I don't know anything of the ToE concept.
This is an experiment, and like all good experiments the outcome is not clear - it could be interesting, but it could also fall flat on its proverbial face...
With very few exceptions, most threads in this Forum discuss subjects that have been discussed ad nauseum umpteen times before - like creation, evolution, eternal damnation, etc. In none of these um ...[text shortened]... r deal of practical experience on this third rock from the sun.
Here goes - any takers?
CJ
Well maybe your third statement I'ld have to disagree with, and yet it is also the reason of this reply.
I had always been curious of the fact that when Jesus confronted the possessed man that He didn't condemn the demons, rather He showed mercy.
(Note: My Spiritual Director told me to be careful who I tell this to. This was in reference to other priests)
In my spiritual experiences, I confronted a fallen Angel (demon) on this very subject. It told me that it could not be forgiven. I told it that all things were possible in God.
I took the spirit before the Father (God). I said, "if his sin is so great, give it to me and I will take his place." The Father took the spirit and I left.
Maybe a year later, an Angel came to me. The moment seemed odd, because I know the sensation when Angels are present. And this Angel was unfamiliar. (I know the sensation of fallen Angels too)
It was the spirit i had taken before the Father, reborn. His name is Eleric.
Since that time, I have done this to thousands of fallen spirits.
I want to note here too. In my spiritual experiences, there have been times that some of the fallen spirits are resolved against God.
16 Jun 14
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My Net home page linked to a site that included these paragraphs:
"The team identified 18 stars with so-called 'Nemesis orbits,' named after the hypothetical dwarf star that some scientists think may be circling the sun from far, far away. These 18 approach fairly close to the sun, retreat, then come back again over time.
Some scientists have invoked the putative distant companion 'Nemesis' to explain a perceived periodicity in mass extinctions on Earth. Nemesis could be disturbing comets from the Oort cloud — a large swarm of space rocks surrounding the solar system — at regular intervals, the argument goes, resulting in big, destructive impact events on Earth."
If there truly have been mass extinctions caused by such stellar events, how easily can you incorporate that into your beliefs about a deity?
It seems to me that only a cold, distant, sterile sort of deity would sit by and let gravitational dynamics do its thing to our home planet. We're getting more into "deism" territory than "theism" if we go down that road, aren't we?