08 Sep 09
Originally posted by menace71I know someone like that as well, and you know what, your friend is right!! It is people like that that give Islam a bad name.
The young man I work with is a Muslim He would not hurt a fly! He gets excited when talking about God with me. Another co-worker called him a terrorist & He was very upset. He was like dude it gives Islam a bad name because of the terrorist. He says he loves being an American. I believe him.
Manny
08 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by hakimaThis is the point for which I was making. Mohammad is the messenger from God for Muslims that superceed all other messengers. Of course, Mohammad would say that he is but one of many, but then goes and writes another holy book telling us of the "true" message of the other prophets. So although Islam may say that Mohammad is one of many, it is he and he alone that has the "undefiled" message from God. In that sense, the religion is geared around the one message and one man.
Mohammad is a messenger of God...[/b]
08 Sep 09
3 edits
Originally posted by Proper KnobI hear people say this but have never heard or seen that exact quote. However, if he said that he was doing these things in the name of God, then he would add to the Crusaders list as a representatitve of Christ, albiet a false one. Having said that, I don't think anyone in their right mind believes that "W" invaded the middle east because God told him to. There are obvious reasons why he did what he did as where the Crusades were evidently felt "inspired" to go butcher Jews and Mohammaed to free the holy land for Christians. I don't see any other explanation.
Didn't George Bush, a fundamentalist Christian, claim that God told him to end the tyranny in Iraq and Afghanistan?
If we're talking about a Christian Muslim death scale here, i would say the Christians are well into the lead at the moment.
If you can find the quote though, I would love to read it!!
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by whodeyThe KJV of the Bible says that Jesus said,
This is the point for which I was making. Mohammad is the messenger from God for Muslims that superceed all other messengers. Of course, Mohammad would say that he is but one of many, but then goes and writes another holy book telling us of the "true" message of the other prophets. So although Islam may say that Mohammad is one of many, it is he and he alo ...[text shortened]... message from God. In that sense, the religion is geared around the one message and one man.
I am the way, the truth and the light, no man cometh unto the Father but by me..."
That is the version that is translated from the Greek and is interpreted fairly concretely in Western religion...and is basically geared around one message and one man.
However, the Aramaic (which is likely the language Jesus spoke) indicates a broader interpretation which points to Jesus saying that the way he walked was the path toward God and not he, himself...
For some the question centers around "Who and what is the one and only right way..." and is based on how the texts are interpreted.
For me and others there is a much broader conception of interpretation.
Hakima
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by whodeyAnd Christianity seems to be geared around one specific set of books (the Bible), yet would you say 'the Bible is the religion'? Do you realize that your comment that Mohammed is the religion is somewhat short sighted and rather insulting?
In that sense, the religion is geared around the one message and one man.
Worse, you appear to be criticizing Islam, yet I doubt you can explain why you believe that having one continuously dictated message from God is inherently worse than having a multitude of sources in different languages over a long period of time which to the majority of us appear to contradict each other and whose selection from a large body of work seems to have been done at a later date for political reasons.
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by whodeyReason is powerless in the expression of Love -according to Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi, that is.
This is the point for which I was making. Mohammad is the messenger from God for Muslims that superceed all other messengers. Of course, Mohammad would say that he is but one of many, but then goes and writes another holy book telling us of the "true" message of the other prophets. So although Islam may say that Mohammad is one of many, it is he and he alo ...[text shortened]... message from God. In that sense, the religion is geared around the one message and one man.
But I forgot that Mevlana was merely an unbeliever stranded in the mist and the darkness of his sema, a slave of “…a religion geared around the one message and one man”
😵
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by black beetleahh mulsim heaven, rivers of sweet wine, fair large bosomed maidens attending upon your every whim, sitting on divans of ivory, in the shade, while some cool wind gently blows through the trees. hell, on the other hand is not so appealing, especially for christians and Jews. i dunno about atheists, maybe they get a get out of hell free card, but it is an Arabic vision regardless, never the less.
And after the annihilation of your self, what? Heaven and Hell do you penetrate?
😵
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by whodeyThey do get some headlines every once in a while, but not nearly as often.
I have heard of people like this so I am inclined to think they DO get the headlines. I think the major difference is that large numbers don't exist nor are their organized groups out their with the mission of killing them off. Of course, there have been "killings" in the past, but for the most part random and few and far between at best. Of course, as the ...[text shortened]... the responsibility of every "shepherd"/pastor to talk about these things and condemn them.
I agree that it is the responsibility of every pastor/priest/imam/etc to condemn them and frankly there are many in each that DO condemn them, but because those condemnations don't make the news you don't see them and so you are here suggesting that they don't exist or don't exist in the number that you think they should.
Back to the more basic question I was asking really though. Even if there are a higher number of violent people in Islam than other religions, how do you think that should change how we view muslims on a whole or as individuals?
I simply think that if we treat muslims as if they are all violent savages then that will make even the peaceful people resent that and hence be more likely to become violent in order to rebel against that ridiculous treatment.
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by PsychoPawnMy response is, you will act how you want to be treated. It goes back to the golden rule which we all acknowledge on some level. So the larger numbers that "cause troube" the more we should assume that there is something amiss in their religion.
I simply think that if we treat muslims as if they are all violent savages then that will make even the peaceful people resent that and hence be more likely to become violent in order to rebel against that ridiculous treatment.[/b]
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by whodeyYes.. act how you want to be treated. That's a wonderful platitude, but it doesn't always work in real life.
My response is, you will act how you want to be treated. It goes back to the golden rule which we all acknowledge on some level. So the larger numbers that "cause troube" the more we should assume that there is something amiss in their religion.
You are making a (il)logical jump from a seeming correlation to a generalized causation which simply is wrong.
By saying that the religion itself on a whole is causing violence you are lumping in peaceful people who are not violent into a stereotype that is in itself bigotry.
It's no different than saying that the majority (if not all) murders of doctors who perform abortions are committed by christians so christianity must cause them to do it. It's not rational or logical and it's wrong to make that jump to judge the entire group.
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOh ye long leggedy beastie Rabbie, this kind of heaven is not exactly the case for the swirling friends of ours that prisoners of Love they remain; as for this miserable black bug, it seems to me it 's condemned to suffer 84.000 million billion trillion lifes before attaining nirvana (but anyway we enjoy several nice trees here in samsara) 😵
ahh mulsim heaven, rivers of sweet wine, fair large bosomed maidens attending upon your every whim, sitting on divans of ivory, in the shade, while some cool wind gently blows through the trees. hell, on the other hand is not so appealing, especially for christians and Jews. i dunno about atheists, maybe they get a get out of hell free card, but it is an Arabic vision regardless, never the less.
And how are you? I wish you well for you and yours
😵