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19 Jul 20
@petewxyz
'The paradox is that on their deathbed an atheist should logically allow themselves any delusion that offers comfort since if they believe that is truly the end what would be the point of depriving yourself of that comfort or maintaining your sanity? The sign of true atheism should be accepting the comfort of religious conversion on the deathbed.'
I get what you were trying to say in the above quote Pete, and think we both agree your wording could have been better?
My initial response hasn't changed. As an atheist a deliberate deathbed conversion would deliver no comfort, due to my resoluteness that God does not exist. (It would be a fake and unfulfilling comfort). I do agree with you however that it is logical to try and seek ways to minimize the impact of trauma and if I could indeed convince myself that God exists in my final hours to take away the fear of death then I might try and do just that. Unfortunately, atheism just doesn't work that way.
@petewxyz saidYou said "I do sometimes find these social media conversations embarrassing."
I rest my case.
And Ghost of a Duke gave you wise counsel: "We've all be there old chap. In this forum in particular, quickly own an erroneous statement, never double-down."
And yet, here you are having started a whole new thread especially in order to pick your own scabs in public.
19 Jul 20
@petewxyzA sign of latent, residual, or unacknowledged theism maybe, or even a sign of agosticism that was long perceived or presented as atheism, perhaps, but certainly not a sign of "true atheism".
'The paradox is that on their deathbed an atheist should logically allow themselves any delusion that offers comfort since if they believe that is truly the end what would be the point of depriving yourself of that comfort or maintaining your sanity? The sign of true atheism should be accepting the comfort of religious conversion on the deathbed.'
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@fmf saidPete has previously acknowledged that 'true atheism' could have been better worded. I'm happy to accept he was trying to say that a smart atheist would/should believe anything on their deathbed that brings them comfort, as they have nothing to lose by doing so. (The rest of his post suggests this).
You had eight pages. You ended up questioning other's ethics and their integrity rather than explaining how a "true" atheist is supposedly one who ends up a theist.
Trying to pin him down on the erroneous use of 'true atheism' merely prevents further debate on the main thrust of his position.
@fmf saidYou do keep referring to Ghost as the arbiter of truth. Perhaps you have found yourself a deity?
You said "I do sometimes find these social media conversations embarrassing."
And Ghost of a Duke gave you wise counsel: "We've all be there old chap. In this forum in particular, quickly own an erroneous statement, never double-down."
And yet, here you are having started a whole new thread especially in order to pick your own scabs in public.
19 Jul 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI thank you.
Pete has previously acknowledged that 'true atheism' could have been better worded. I'm happy to accept he was trying to say that a smart atheist would/should believe anything on their deathbed that brings them comfort, as they have nothing to lose by doing so. (The rest of his post suggests this).
Trying to pin him down on the erroneous use of 'true atheism' merely prevents further debate on the main thrust of his position.
I would go on to say that I believe that none of us can anticipate what our mindset will be on our deathbed, but that is just a point of view open to debate.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI think the real issue on THIS thread is his wounded pride and his sanctimoniousness. He is blaming others for the pig's ear he made of something. The pig's ear thing, I agree, belongs on the other thread. But the self-pitying blaming of others is what this thread seems to be about.
Trying to pin him down on the erroneous use of 'true atheism' merely prevents further debate on the main thrust of his position.
@fmf saidI think you'll find this thread was started in response to @divegeester suggesting that what I was saying in a different thread should have a thread of it's own. I listened to his reasonable suggestion and followed it.
You said "I do sometimes find these social media conversations embarrassing."
And Ghost of a Duke gave you wise counsel: "We've all be there old chap. In this forum in particular, quickly own an erroneous statement, never double-down."
And yet, here you are having started a whole new thread especially in order to pick your own scabs in public.
@petewxyz saidI think BigDoggProblem has your card marked.
I think you'll find this thread was started in response to @divegeester suggesting that what I was saying in a different thread should have a thread of it's own. I listened to his reasonable suggestion and followed it.
@fmf saidI think BigDoggProblem would acknowledge that he thought I was addressing something other than the way you and Dive had shown no interest in finding what my meaning was for a solid 8 pages in the other thread, but I could be wrong and I am open to his comments if I have misunderstood.
I think BigDoggProblem has your card marked.
@petewxyz saidI engaged you for 8 pages and you spent them disingenuously distancing yourself from what you'd said, deflecting, dissembling, and eventually denouncing people.
I think BigDoggProblem would acknowledge that he thought I was addressing something other than the way you and Dive had shown no interest in finding what my meaning was for a solid 8 pages in the other thread, but I could be wrong and I am open to his comments if I have misunderstood.
I was interested in what you were trying to say. What's more interesting now, though, is how you are behaving in the wake of your own clumsiness and your desire to somehow blame others for it.
@ghost-of-a-duke said@FMF
Pete has previously acknowledged that 'true atheism' could have been better worded. I'm happy to accept he was trying to say that a smart atheist would/should believe anything on their deathbed that brings them comfort, as they have nothing to lose by doing so. (The rest of his post suggests this).
Trying to pin him down on the erroneous use of 'true atheism' merely prevents further debate on the main thrust of his position.
Here is an understanding in one post. An understanding that you dismally failed to illicit in 8 pages due to a style of questioning so appalling it caused me to feel the need to start this thread.
@petewxyz saidHere you are, blaming others. Oh, so I failed to elicit an "understanding" from you. You didn't fail to make yourself understood. No. Not that. Instead, I... er... "dismally failed" to get you to make yourself understood. Priceless!
@FMF
Here is an understanding in one post. An understanding that you dismally failed to illicit in 8 pages due to a style of questioning so appalling it caused me to feel the need to start this thread.