Atheism vs. Faith

@wolfgang59 said
You previously said
... reality and what we think are independent of one another.
Your mumbo jumbo isn't even consistent.

No, the full point was and is truth is when what we think/believe lines up with reality. Just because I or anyone else believes anything that doesn’t mean it’s true. The point is just because we accept anything doesn’t mean we are right. A billion years old universe or a thousand years old universe one doesn’t change reality because we say so.

@kellyjay said
No, the full point was and is truth is when what we think/believe lines up with reality. Just because I or anyone else believes anything that doesn’t mean it’s true. The point is just because we accept anything doesn’t mean we are right. A billion years old universe or a thousand years old universe one doesn’t change reality because we say so.

Every time I point out to you that your personal opinions about supernatural things are just subjective, you get all huffy. And here you are admitting that your opinions and beliefs have no bearing on reality.

@fmf said
Every time I point out to you that your personal opinions about supernatural things are just subjective, you get all huffy. And here you are admitting that your opinions and beliefs have no bearing on reality.

You don't follow along well. You are suggesting that our opinions define reality, they do not, not mine or yours. Our opinions define our world views which may have somethings we get right and wrong, meaning our opinions are not reality they are simply our opinions. The supernatural can be dismissed by you, as just subjective that does not mean the supernatural isn't real, only you have made a judgment call and said no I will not believe. The reality of what is or isn't true does not depend on your views of it, truth isn't going to change because you think it is all just subjective.

@kellyjay said
You don't follow along well. You are suggesting that our opinions define reality, they do not, not mine or yours.

No, I am pointedly and repeatedly NOT suggesting that our opinions define reality. It is you who seems unable to follow along well.

@kellyjay said
The supernatural can be dismissed by you, as just subjective that does not mean the supernatural isn't real, only you have made a judgment call and said no I will not believe.

All your speculation and hopes and fears and opinions about the supernatural are subjective. No amount of certainty on your part, no amount of sincerity, no amount of repetition, no amount of missing-my-point, no amount of going blue in the face, no amount of you assuming the discursive foetal position, none of all this huffy earnest stumbling on your part changes your subjectivity or your personal opinions about "reality" and "the truth" of these matters into something "objective" or "real" in any way that is external to your thoughts.

@kellyjay said
No, the full point was and is truth is when what we think/believe lines up with reality. Just because I or anyone else believes anything that doesn’t mean it’s true. The point is just because we accept anything doesn’t mean we are right. A billion years old universe or a thousand years old universe one doesn’t change reality because we say so.

Your combination of bad grammar, bad logic and bad ideas is quite baffling.

@kellyjay said
The reality of what is or isn't true does not depend on your views of it, truth isn't going to change because you think it is all just subjective.

We can but speculate when it comes to supernatural things.

@fmf said
We can but speculate when it comes to supernatural things.

Never denied that; however, no matter what you come up with, it will not change reality either way. It will not change reality, no matter how many agree or disagree with you either, since your beliefs don't define reality making what you acknowledge as truth, truth, or lies, lies.

@wolfgang59 said
Your combination of bad grammar, bad logic and bad ideas is quite baffling.

The point of truth is we are seeking it.
The things we say if not spot on in reality isn't truth.
If we are getting it wrong, we are in error, no matter how convinced we are about it.
Not to difficult in my opinion to grasp, you are right however possible I'm not clear enough.

@kellyjay said
Never denied that; however, no matter what you come up with, it will not change reality either way. It will not change reality, no matter how many agree or disagree with you either, since your beliefs don't define reality making what you acknowledge as truth, truth, or lies, lies.

Your speculations and imaginings have no bearing on the reality in which I live.

@fmf said
We can but speculate when it comes to supernatural things.

Not true, because the reality of God can be known, unless of course you refuse it, than that is all you will ever have, merely thoughts about it.

@kellyjay said
Not true, because the reality of God can be known, unless of course you refuse it, than that is all you will ever have, merely thoughts about it.

This is your personal opinion and your religious belief. No doubt your thoughts about your God figure seem very, very real to you. If they help you live your life, good for you.

@fmf said
Your speculations and imaginings have no bearing on the reality in which I live.

Duh, I have been saying as much. What you should be concerned with is the reality we live in. Where what is real matters, and our opinions don’t!

@fmf said
This is your personal opinion and your religious belief. No doubt your thoughts about your God figure seem very, very real to you. If they help you live your life, good for you.

You are focusing upon the wrong thing!