athiesist y r u in here

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Perhaps mostly because atheism is a religion. Another reason could be that they are not neutral about the subject."
~gambit3 (thread page 4) To which I replied, "Categorical Bingo! Christianity happens to be a relationship."

Please clarify your "How does atheism fit in" question.

No problem Gramps.

gambit3 made the statement -

"Perhaps mostly because atheism is a religion. Another reason could be that they are not neutral about the subject."

You responded by quoting his/her statement, but singled out and highlighted in bold the specific text atheism is a religion, to which you then replied -

Categorical Bingo!

Double capitals and an exclamation mark! Correct me if i'm wrong, but you appeared to be endorsing gambit3's claim that atheism is a religion?!

If that is the case, my question to you is,

Here is a definition of religion from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Religion is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or in general a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

If atheism is a religion, how does atheism; in your view, fit into this definition of religion?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
No problem Gramps.

gambit3 made the statement -

"Perhaps mostly because atheism is a religion. Another reason could be that they are not neutral about the subject."

You responded by quoting his/her statement, but singled out and highlighted [b]in bold the specific text atheism is a religion, to which you then replied -

[i] atheism is a religion, how does atheism; in your view, fit into this definition of religion?[/b]

=========================================
Here is a definition of religion from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Religion is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or in general a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

If atheism is a religion, how does atheism; in your view, fit into this definition of religion?
========================================== [/i]

It may not be a theistic religion. But a religious like devotion could certainly be held by atheists to the precept that man is the measure of all things. This virtually idolizes humanity to such an elevated status that it is like a god.

There was in fact an attempt to establish a religion for atheists on the Internet. The name of the religion was "Zero." And it was plainly stated by the adherent that they intended to match Christianity in outreach, evangelization, and indoctrination. I don't know whatever happened to them.

I thought of this as becomming like the thing you hate most. ( Some radio philosopher once made a valid point. Whatever you hate the most you become like it yourself - ... "Foundation for Human Understanding" program of the 80s).

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=========================================
Here is a definition of religion from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Religion is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or in general a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a m ...[text shortened]... u become like it yourself - ... "Foundation for Human Understanding" program of the 80s).[/b]

What do i hate most?

That's a rather grand presumption even by your standards.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
What do i hate most?

That's a rather grand presumption even by your standards.

I don't know what you hate the most Knob.

But you have to admit some athiests are growing quite evangelical in thier reaction to theism.

If not explain the summer camps where parents can send their children to be thoroughly indoctrinated to atheist philosophy.

I have heard atheist boasting that they will plant phony fossils in the ground to confirm evolution. Now they may have been tongue in cheek. But think about it. They are saying "By Any Means Necessary".

I suspect in the futre you will see Dawkins like militancy encreasing among young atheists.

The quotation about becoming like what you hate, I think I have observed in many areas of life. It has some validity IMO.

Originally posted by jaywill
I don't know what you hate the most Knob.

But you have to admit some athiests are growing quite evangelical in thier reaction to theism.

If not explain the summer camps where parents can send their children to be thoroughly indoctrinated to atheist philosophy.

I have heard atheist boasting that they will plant phony fossils in the ground to con ...[text shortened]... like what you hate, I think I have observed in many areas of life. It has some validity IMO.

I think there is a problem with assuming that atheism is the same as religion on the basis that there are superficial similarities.

For instance, Christians have Bible camps and atheists have critical thinking camps.
There is a superficial resemblance. But it is hard to see how it makes sense to believe you can indoctrinate people into the skills of critical thinking in the same way as Christian evangelicals indoctrinate their flock at Bible camp.

In fact, I've seen footage from a Christian camp and the indoctrination techniques used on young children were blatant.

Can you see the contradiction in the idea of indoctrinating people into critical thinking? 🙂

Originally posted by Proper Knob
What do i hate most?

That's a rather grand presumption even by your standards.

I don't think I will rigorously defend the axiom. I may even take it too far.

I think it has some validity.
You won that argument.

Originally posted by jaywill
It may not be a theistic religion. But a religious like devotion could certainly be held by atheists to the precept that man is the measure of all things. This virtually idolizes humanity to such an elevated status that it is like a god.

I fully realize that some atheists may have religious like devotion to a cause, or have religious like beliefs and religious like behavior. It may even be reasonable to call them religious, or say they are following a religion.
But to go from there and say "atheism is a religion" shows remarkable ignorance of what atheism actually is. Atheists come in all shapes and sizes, from those who simply haven't considered the God concept to those who actively believe it is invalid, and those who actively campaign against theism. The only thing you can validly say about all atheists is that they don't believe in a god / gods. Any other claims must be applied only to a subset of atheists.
So even if an atheistic religion did exist (though it might violate the dictionary definition), it still would be wrong to say 'atheism is a religion', even more wrong than saying 'theism is a religion'.

Originally posted by Proper Knob

No problem Gramps.

gambit3 made the statement -

"Perhaps mostly because atheism is a religion. Another reason could be that they are not neutral about the subject."

You responded by quoting his/her statement, but singled out and highlighted [b]in bold the specific text atheism is a religion, to which you then replied -

[ ...[text shortened]... atheism is a religion, how does atheism; in your view, fit into this definition of religion?[/b]

Proper Knob, let's set third party wiki cyberspace site to site references aside for a moment in the interest of direct person to person conversation. In my understandng, 'religion' (any and all of the religions ever invented by the human race) equate to man by man's efforts, good works, self righteous endeavors seeking to gain the approbation of God.

Christianity is God seeking to reconcile man without coercion of volition or interference with self determination. It's all about initiative and response, which is why human free will remains intact. The Father prepared a perfect plan in eternity past. The uniquely born Son (perfect humanity and undiminished deity in hypostatic union in one person forever) executed the plan, i.e., did the work of propitiating (satisfying the requirements of) divine justice with His substitutionary spiritual death (separation from the Father) on our behalf. All sin was poured out on Him and judged once and for all.

Personal sin isn't an issue at the point in time moment of an individual's decision to believe (place confidence) in Christ and accept the grace gift of relationship with God (three persons with identical attributes) in time and for all eternity. Word 'repent' in the Koine is a transitive verb which simply means to change one's mind, as Paul did on the dusty road to Damascus. There's nothing we can possibly add. Feeling sorry, promising to do better, making commitments, giving up bubble gum or booze are all meritorious. And don't cut it. He gets all the credit and glory. We receive the benefit.

All religions contain elements of truth mixed with error, as with any deceptive counterfeit. You're free to parse and define atheism any way you choose. It's not Christianity if it rejects the Father's plan; the person and work of the revealed/risen Christ; and His freely offered grace gift. That was the thrust of my 'Categorical Bingo!' reply to gambit3.



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Postscript: Beginning to enjoy your understated play of mind, Proper Knob. How about taking a brief timeout

for a relevant challenge. Your prize if you successfully identify my favorite quotation in my RHP Profile... Reveal Hidden Content

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Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Postscript: Beginning to enjoy your understated play of mind, Proper Knob. How about taking a brief timeout

for a relevant challenge. Your prize if you successfully identify my favorite quotation in my RHP Profile... [hidden] No gb Spirituality Forum posts for twenty four hours![/hidden]



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I like this one -

"My left is weakened. My right is broken. The situation is excellent. I'm on the attack."
Field Communiqué to Headquarters, Marshal Foch (French Commander, 1851-1929)

Whether it is correct or not, i have no desire to silence anyone in this forum

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I like this one -

"My left is weakened. My right is broken. The situation is excellent. I'm on the attack."
Field Communiqué to Headquarters, Marshal Foch (French Commander, 1851-1929)

Whether it is correct or not, i have no desire to silence anyone in this forum

Strike one. Stay at the plate, PK. We're being playful in the moment.

Two more swings (and remember, you're identifying the one I like).


😉

Originally posted by gambit3
It is what they believe. Their faith is placed in there is no lake of fire to shun nor is there a Heaven to gain. There is only the here and now. Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. There is no after life. Atheism is not a formal religion per se but it is a faith.

“…It is what they believe….”

Yes, and a belief doesn’t equate with a religion.
I believe the Earth is not flat; is this a religious belief?

“…Their faith is….”

What faith?
Faith is when you believe something in the absence of sufficient reason or evidence to support that belief.
To believe an existential claim such as there is a yeti is faith. And to disbelieve existential claim such as there is a yeti is a particular absence of faith.

Originally posted by realeyez
No I have not please imform me.

Mike Warnke was allegedly a former Satanic high priest who wrote a book about his experiences that propelled him to a big career in evangelism. Your experiences reminded me of his story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Warnke

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“…It is what they believe….”

Yes, and a belief doesn’t equate with a religion.
I believe the Earth is not flat; is this a religious belief?

“…Their faith is….”

What faith?
Faith is when you believe something in the absence of sufficient reason or evidence to support that belief.
To believe an existential claim such as there is a yeti is ...[text shortened]... h. And to disbelieve existential claim such as there is a yeti is a particular absence of faith.

Not all things that people believe are of the realm of the supernatural. Faith-the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Strike one. Stay at the plate, PK. We're being playful in the moment.

Two more swings (and remember, you're identifying the one I like).


😉

“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way'" -C.S. Lewis.

Home run? Or still swinging like a rusty gate?