12 Jun 19
@suzianne saidI asked a question and then I asked a different slightly more specific version of the question in order to be clear about your view on "Satan" and the ex-Christian who has "known" about the resurrection and "rejected" it.
In no way was that the question you asked me twice.
12 Jun 19
@secondson saidSo my rejection of Christianity does not make me a 'willing member of Satan's rebellion against God' in your view?
Not exactly, but whatever it takes Satan will use it.
To believe, or to believe not is a choice, an act of the will. Satan uses force to influence, but God does not. Jesus is there knocking at the door, but one must open it to Him.
Elsewhere it says "the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not". Satan will blind the minds into ever deepening ...[text shortened]... he glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
It's that simple.
12 Jun 19
@philokalia saidIt will be interesting to see if sonship will chime in on this.
But we don't know that much about you, and it would be supreme folly to say "FMF was influenced by Satan."
He must have claimed I was "influenced by Satan" a hundred times over the last decade.
If he takes a breather from trotting out Witness Lee cult propaganda, he might come here and clarify his specific assertions that I am influenced by "Satan".
12 Jun 19
Your characterization of his beliefs in such harsh terms is provocative and unhelpful, and surely helps give birth to these dramatic exchanges.
Exchanges that you are fond of.
But on topic: in a sense, all people are influenced by Satan from an occasionalist perspective, up to and including Christians. Indeed, the Saints themselves receive temptations and devils attempt deceptions upon them. So, of course, to have some negative influence from the dark spirits at work (2 Thessalonians 2:7) is to be expected.
To say that you would be uniquely affected and to speculate on the nature of that is inappropriate.
@philokalia saidIf you think sonship's beliefs about non-believers being "willing members" of "Satan's" rebellion are "provocative and unhelpful", then you should take it up with him rather than try to use me as a proxy to air your disagreements with his theology.
Your characterization of his beliefs in such harsh terms is provocative and unhelpful, and surely helps give birth to these dramatic exchanges.
12 Jun 19
@philokalia saidAs you have admitted to having sex outside of marriage, you therefore are influenced by Satan and satanic forces...correct?
Sure.
12 Jun 19
@secondson saidWhat nonsense is this. What about most of the OT characters?
Satan uses force to influence, but God does not.
12 Jun 19
@fmf saidI think you are banking on the context barrier here.
If you think sonship's beliefs about non-believers being "willing members" of "Satan's" rebellion are "provocative and unhelpful", then you should take it up with him rather than try to use me as a proxy to air your disagreements with his theology.
There are people who hate Trump and believe Trump supporters are willfully ignorant asses voting for a bigoted sexist, racist, and homophobe... Yet, it is unfair to imply that they universally regard every Trump supporter, at all times, in all circumstances, as a willfully ignorant ass.
Put the statement into its original context and I am sure we will see it.
You are being fundamentally dishonest and knocking people out of their original framework.
12 Jun 19
@divegeester saidSure, at times I have been influenced by dark desires and temptations, I imagine.
As you have admitted to having sex outside of marriage, you therefore are influenced by Satan and satanic forces...correct?
What a bummer, right?
12 Jun 19
@philokalia saidsonship's talks about non-believers being "willing members" of "Satan's" rebellion all the time. Have some online 'courage' and take it up with him. It's not my stated belief, it's his.
I think you are banking on the context barrier here.
There are people who hate Trump and believe Trump supporters are willfully ignorant asses voting for a bigoted sexist, racist, and homophobe... Yet, it is unfair to imply that they universally regard every Trump supporter, at all times, in all circumstances, as a willfully ignorant ass.
Put the statement in ...[text shortened]... e it.
You are being fundamentally dishonest and knocking people out of their original framework.
12 Jun 19
@fmf saidSonship usually gives long, thoughtful posts, and those are the usual contexts.
sonship's talks about non-believers being "willing members" of "Satan's" rebellion all the time. Have some online 'courage' and take it up with him. It's not my stated belief, it's his.
I am sure that when put into context it makes good sense.
Sonship is a sensible, valuable poster. ^^
12 Jun 19
2 edits
@philokalia saidNo, we are not talking about “dark desires” “temptations” or what you “imagine”. We are talking about the actual influence of Satan and satanic forces in people’s lives and the impact on their beliefs... currently your beliefs, your behaviour, your life.
Sure, at times I have been influenced by dark desires and temptations, I imagine.
What a bummer, right?
You have admitted in this forum that you choose to have sexual relations with a women you are not married to. According to the bible this is fornication and I am proposing to you that according to your own statements in this thread, you are therefore choosing to allow yourself to be influenced by Satan and Satanic forces.
Surely this deserves more comment from you than a glib “what a bummer”, doesn’t it?
12 Jun 19
@philokalia saidTake up your difference of theological perspective with him directly. Stop using me as a proxy. I am an atheist. I don't believe that non-believers like me are "willing members" of "Satan's" rebellion. It is his belief, not mine. Take it up with him.
Sonship usually gives long, thoughtful posts, and those are the usual contexts.
I am sure that when put into context it makes good sense.
Sonship is a sensible, valuable poster. ^^
12 Jun 19
@philokalia saidWould you place @sonship’s contributions above or at the same level as @Romans1009’s, whom you claimed was one of the best posters on this website?
Sonship is a sensible, valuable poster.
12 Jun 19
@philokalia saidIf you "fornicate" as a Christian ~ i.e. have sex outside marriage, something you mentioned you do in at least two posts addressed to me ~ how is that different from a Christian having homosexual sex?
Sure, at times I have been influenced by dark desires and temptations, I imagine.
Do you think homosexual sex/"fornication" is behaviour influenced by "Satan"?