Beware the writings of the Watchman

@fmf said
sonship's churlish, ruffled-feathers reaction is interesting though, for sure.

@divegeester

I perceive that this OP by Ghost of a Duke has some traction only because of your inappropriate level of esteem of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee.

They are just fallible men but there are indications from the breadth of your posting about them that they are perhaps approaching infallibility.

The New Testament says such servants should be held in high esteem. Held in high esteem does not mean these servants are infallible.

Paul reminded the Colossians of a faithful brother Epaphras.

As you learned from Epaphras, our beloved fellow slave, who is a minister of Christ faithful for you. (Col. 1:7)

Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, Who risked their own necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the nations. (Rom. 16:3,4)

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

'Nee’s writings show that he adopted this two-tiered system of believers: there are those that are being sanctified by letting Christ live in them, and those that are still carnal (he uses the term “ripened” vs. “unripened” ).

In First Corinthians 3:13-15 the Apostle Paul teaches that when Christ returns and examines Christians ...[text shortened]... ] Eternally saved and REWARDED.
[b]2.) Eternally saved yet so as through fire, suffering loss.

@sonship said
@divegeester
Having high esteem for some servants of God is inappropriate?
Why?
Can you quote me or any publication claiming infallibility of Watchman Nee or Witness Lee?
Can you cite any post in which I esteemed them as men would could not make mistakes?

You cannot and are sounding another false alarm.

@sonship said
@divegeester

I perceive that this OP by Ghost of a Duke has some traction only because of your inappropriate level of esteem of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee.

Having high esteem for some servants of God is inappropriate?
Why?

[quote]
They are just fallible men but there are indications from the breadth of your posting about them that they are perhaps ...[text shortened]... emed them as men would could not make mistakes?

You cannot and are sounding another false alarm.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Here's my ten cents worth on Watchman Nee, Witness Lee and the LCM.

"The Normal Christian Life" was a classic which was well received and circulated in the church in the '60s and '70s (and even later). It was followed by such books as "Sit, Walk, Stand" and "The Normal Christian Church Life" and "The Spiritual Man" which had three volumes.

All his books have value and deserve to be read. However, his later books become increasingly more radical and obtuse, meaning hard to follow and difficult to put into practice.

As happens with many such (lets call them) radicals, revolutionaries and visionaries, he, and particularly his disciple, Witness Lee, became obsessed with the idea that they ONLY had the full truth and that they were sent by God to revive the Church, or at least save a Remnant out of the church.

Some years ago in a long discussion with sonship I related my personal experience with the Local Church Movement (LCM).
We had over many years hosted a Home Church consisting of some six families from various backgrounds and denominations, who met weekly for fellowship and worship.

One day one of our members (a long time personal friend of mine) got into contact with someone from the LCM, who convinced them that our group was in error (even though we were non-denominational) and that the only ground for getting together was on the basis of LOCALITY.

This did not make any sense to the rest of us at all! We were already meeting not as a denomination, but as a group of Christians in Pretoria. But no, they pulled out and started a new group, at first only consisting of themselves and one other couple and started calling themselves "The Church in Pretoria".

Now this friend of mine was an extremely clever guy. He was at the time high in government (President of the Human Sciences Research Council) and later became the Rector of the University of Stellenbosch.

I say this merely to emphasise the power of brainwashing possible. Even after many friendly and sometimes heated discussions between us, he could not or would not see that far from uniting the church in Pretoria, all that he was in fact doing was starting YET ANOTHER DENOMINATION!

So, to summarise, from good and sound beginnings, Watchman Nee's teachings (and Witness Lee's follow up) got to their head and they began to have delusions of power. "We are the people, and wisdom will die with us".

Now they are so exclusive that they openly proclaim (as sonship does repeatedly) that THEY ONLY are the true church, everybody else is wrong, and they use Bible words about apostasy and separateness to justify this.

Really sad.

@caljust said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Here's my ten cents worth on Watchman Nee, Witness Lee and the LCM.

"The Normal Christian Life" was a classic which was well received and circulated in the church in the '60s and '70s (and even later). It was followed by such books as "Sit, Walk, Stand" and "The Normal Christian Church Life" and "The Spiritual Man" which had three volumes.

All his book ...[text shortened]... began to have delusions of power. "We are the people, and wisdom will die with us".

Really sad.

@caljust said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Here's my ten cents worth on Watchman Nee, Witness Lee and the LCM.

"The Normal Christian Life" was a classic which was well received and circulated in the church in the '60s and '70s (and even later). It was followed by such books as "Sit, Walk, Stand" and "The Normal Christian Church Life" and "The Spiritual Man" which had three volumes.

All his book ...[text shortened]... is wrong, and they use Bible words about apostasy and separateness to justify this.

Really sad.

@caljust said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
As happens with many such (lets call them) radicals, revolutionaries and visionaries, he, and particularly his disciple, Witness Lee, became obsessed with the idea that they ONLY had the full truth and that they were sent by God to revive the Church, or at least save a Remnant out of the church.

@divegeester said
I completely agree with this insight. There have been many men down the years who seemed to have a gift of ministry from God but as they progress something goes wrong.

I am also a non-denominational Christian btw. I find organisation corporate religion to be man-made, man-glorifying and repellent.

@rajk999 said
If their doctrine is right then things can never go wrong. God is with all who preach the right doctrine.

@divegeester [i]said

I would ask him but he won’t answer “sonship is the LCM the only true church of Jesus Christ?”
Let’s see if/how he responds.

@caljust said
He has already responded in the affirmative several times, when he dismisses all other Christians, i.e. by name all Catholics and all Protestants.

He left out the Eastern Orthodox, but I am pretty sure he would exclude them too had he known about them. 😉

The interesting thing to note is all the Bible verses he quotes. Clearly, nobody argues that those verses are not in ...[text shortened]... plied to the LCM.

It all depends on your point of view.

Should at least be a sobering thought.

@Rajk999

You have elevated the teachings of a man above the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. That says it all about where you have placed this man.