12 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJayExcept that one major theme in this thread is that there isn't anything like a doctrine, or even a common belief, that binds atheists together as atheists. The whole point of the distinction between weak and strong atheism is that some atheists just lack beliefs in God(s) while others actually disbelieve in God(s).
Again, it is common beliefs that bind them...they do not get to draw from those
that believe in God, god, or gods. They are defined by what they hold true,
those things that again define them as what they are. If there were nothing
to bind them into the Atheist group, what discussion would we be having here?
Kelly
Of course, atheists may share some other beliefs. I share all sorts of moral beliefs with my atheist friends who are also virtue-ethicists. Then again, I share many fewer moral beliefs with my atheist friends who are utilitarians and Kantians. I share even fewer moral beliefs with acquaintances who claim to be skeptical about moral notions generally, or who think that morality is based on the pursuit of self-interest. But none of these beliefs are closely connected to our atheism. They are not necessary, in that we could change them while remaining atheists. They are not sufficient, in that we could retain them even if we converted to theism.
So, my question is: What beliefs are you talking about? It can't be any belief about God, since some atheists lack any such beliefs. It can't be any belief about morality, since atheism (both weak and strong) is compatible with a host of fundamentally different moral theories. It can't be a commitment to, say, physicalism or materialism, since not all atheists share this commitment and such a commitment is compatible with theism.
And note that this question is just a preliminary. We still need to determine whether these putatively definitive beliefs of atheism qualify as 'religious' in any interesting way...
Originally posted by bbarrSo what is the word Atheism than if not a group of people who share....X....
Except that one major theme in this thread is that there isn't anything like a doctrine, or even a common belief, that binds atheists together as atheists. The whole point of the distinction between weak and strong atheism is that some atheists just lack beliefs in God(s) while others actually disbelieve in God(s).
Of course, atheists may share some putatively definitive beliefs of atheism qualify as 'religious' in any interesting way...
nothing at all in common? Strong or weak is meaningless that is simply just
a different flavor of the same group. Commonly held beliefs that people cling
to bind them into something other than Theist or Agnostic are what make up
the group Atheist, it is meaningless that some have shared beliefs with the
other groups as well that doesn’t alter what defines them as a whole.
Kelly
12 Nov 12
Originally posted by bbarrWebster:
But it seems as though you are presenting reasons why certain people qualify as 'atheistic', rather than why certain atheists qualify as 'religious'. I thought it was the latter issue we were dealing with here...
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
To be thrown into the mix of people who are Atheist they will share some
things that are not shared with Theist or Agnositics. These things that they
hold to they do so believing they are right, and they live out their lives walking
in the faith they have on who that paints everything around them.
Kelly
Originally posted by bbarrI don't know of any atheist that does not believe in the theory of evolution.
Except that one major theme in this thread is that there isn't anything like a doctrine, or even a common belief, that binds atheists together as atheists. The whole point of the distinction between weak and strong atheism is that some atheists just lack beliefs in God(s) while others actually disbelieve in God(s).
Of course, atheists may share some putatively definitive beliefs of atheism qualify as 'religious' in any interesting way...
P.S. And that is a stupid belief that should tell you something about the mentality of atheists.
12 Nov 12
Originally posted by RJHindsJerry Fodor and Thomas Nagel are two brilliant philosopher and atheists that have just recently written books critical of evolutionary theory. But these books are not on youtube, so you couldn't have known.
I don't know of any atheist that does not believe in the theory of evolution.
P.S. And that is a stupid belief that should tell you something about the mentality of atheists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga33t0NI6Fk
12 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJayAtheism isn't a group. It is a descriptive word for the lack of belief in God/gods. To group people based on what they don't believe though not totally invalid, is somewhat prone to pitfalls.
So what is the word Atheism than if not a group of people who share....X....
nothing at all in common?
For example, it is useful to classify people according to what education they have received. It is somewhat less useful to classify them based on what education they have not received. Its perfectly reasonable for someone to openly state (when relevant) that they are not an astrophysicist. It is less sensible to put all non-astrophysicists together and treat them as a group - and practically impossible to say anything meaningful about them other than that they are not astrophysicists.
12 Nov 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadDo you like "infidel" better than "atheist"?
Atheism isn't a group. It is a descriptive word for the lack of belief in God/gods. To group people based on what they don't believe though not totally invalid, is somewhat prone to pitfalls.
For example, it is useful to classify people according to what education they have received. It is somewhat less useful to classify them based on what education the ...[text shortened]... impossible to say anything meaningful about them other than that they are not astrophysicists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel
Perhaps atheist-infidel is more descriptive.
13 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJayTypo alert:
Webster:
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
To be thrown into the mix of people who are Atheist they will share some
things that are not shared with Theist or Agnositics. These things that they
hold to they do so believing they are right, and they live out their lives walking
in the faith they have on who that paints everything around them.
Kelly
These things that they hold to they do so believing they are right, and they live
out their lives walking in the faith they have on how that paints everything around them.
I wrote who instead of how....sorry my bad.
Kelly
13 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJayThat's ok, even atheists make mistakes sometimes🙂
Typo alert:
These things that they hold to they do so believing they are right, and they live
out their lives walking in the faith they have on how that paints everything around them.
I wrote who instead of how....sorry my bad.
Kelly
13 Nov 12
1 edit
I would agree that atheism is not a religion. A religion is more than a set of beliefs: it provides a system of moral and ethical values, a sense of what is right and what is wrong, and certain rituals and codes of conduct. Atheism is simply an absence of any belief in a deity, which no more directs an individual's moral compass than not believing there's a monster under the bed.
14 Nov 12
Originally posted by SoothfastActually it sets the stage for all their beliefs, it colors the universe in such a
I would agree that atheism is not a religion. A religion is more than a set of beliefs: it provides a system of moral and ethical values, a sense of what is right and what is wrong, and certain rituals and codes of conduct. Atheism is simply an absence of any belief in a deity, which no more directs an individual's moral compass than not believing there's a monster under the bed.
way that they look at things through the prism of their beliefs. They do not
have a lack of beliefs, they just don't have a god they acknowledge. The lack of
a god does not void that they believe specific things true and judge all things
by those beliefs. So yes I do believe it is a religion, they have a standard that
is godless, but that is still a standard, it may vary from group to group within
their ranks, but what large group doesn't have that?
Kelly
14 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJayBut if this is the criterion, that one have a set of beliefs by which one judges the world, then it follows that everybody is religious because everybody has such a set of beliefs. That's just part of being a rational agent. But then it seems 'religious' has lost its moorings. By extending the notion so broadly, you've emptied it of any meaning. I'm not sure that's what you want from the term...
Actually it sets the stage for all their beliefs, it colors the universe in such a
way that they look at things through the prism of their beliefs. They do not
have a lack of beliefs, they just don't have a god they acknowledge. The lack of
a god does not void that they believe specific things true and judge all things
by those beliefs. So yes I do beli ...[text shortened]... y vary from group to group within
their ranks, but what large group doesn't have that?
Kelly