27 Nov 18
@sonship saidThe question relates to the importance of a Christian accepting the trinity doctrine in order to be saved. Being "saved" or "not saved" is a "binary" condition; therefore the response requires a yes or a no which may of course be qualified.
@divegeester
The response by Ghost of a Duke is simple, honest and unequivocal. Why can't you respond like that?
He gave an answer. I have also, many times.
Now I took his answer and presented him with a particular case. He has not YET responded as far as I can see.
The answer he gave can be examined more closely. Just as any Yes or No period ans ...[text shortened]... etimes applied to God of Whom we are definitely told He is only one.
Did you watch the debate ?
It really isn't complicated sonship.
27 Nov 18
@sonship saidWas that a yes or a no? Or are you not sure of what you believe?
@FMF
If divegeester doesn't come with an anti-Trinity doctrine that you believe is better than what you believe and an anti- torturer God ideology that you believe is more morally coherent than the doctrine that you believe, could it have a negative impact on his "salvation" ~ according to your own understanding?
If I engage you and examine with you s ...[text shortened]... er ANYWAY, Why I'm an Atheist."
I've been through your Argument By Apathy enough times already.
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The question relates to the importance of a Christian accepting the trinity doctrine in order to be saved. Being "saved" or "not saved" is a "binary" condition; therefore the response requires a yes or a no which may of course be qualified.
It really isn't complicated sonship.
Do you think the only things Christians should talk about are the minimum matters effecting whether they are saved or not?
If it is "really isn't complicated" why didn't the New Testament stop with John 3:16 ?
Why doesn't Romans end around the 4th chapter rather than go on to chapter 16 ?
Why didn't God just desire that all men be saved and that is IT?
But He desires all men to be saved AND to come to the full knowledge of the truth.
" ... our Savior God, Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)
Why didn't it say "This isn't a complicated matter. God desires all men to be saved, that's all and nothing further" ?
There is no need for you to oppose me speaking about the Father - Son - Holy Spirit in His or Their mysterious economy.
It is sufficient that you say "Oh, I don't have a trinity teaching".
It is not necessary that you OPPOSE brothers who teach about God's operation and being using a larger scope of the words of the Bible.
Why is it necessary that you oppose me writing about the triune God ? Why ? Who stops you from correcting positively errors you see written?
Nothing stops you. I assume you haven't done much to do so because you cannot though you complain long and loud that you don't believe in a trinity teaching. We heard that. So where's the error?
Watch.
Which one of the Divine "Us" in John 17:21 is not God?
If you say "Neither," I completely agree. And then the ONE GOD is rather mysterious. And a coined expression of Trinity is legitimate. It is not to me a teaching of three Gods.
I have said it before. I think when you think of a trinity you think of "three Gods". I call that tritheism. And if you ask me about trinity I do not express three Gods or Tritheism.
But if you follow Arias or Charles Taz Russell that there is no God as Father and Son, even if by His mercy He imparted life to you, I don't submit for a second to your Arian error or a Modalistic concept not upholding the complete deity of Jesus Christ.
You must know that the Jehovah's Witnesses join you in fighting against One God and Father - Son - Holy Spirit. You don't want to be like them do you ?
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This is a topic that has been running for at least three years across dozens of threads but you are just wanting to step in and ask questions now. You might find following even this thread somewhat tedious unless you have a genuine interest in the subject matter.
I suspect that even an outsider to the faith like wolfgang would like to know WHY you want to know something anyway.
Are you going to postively SHOW that a belief in the Triune God is a dangerous heresy OR are you just going to vaguely complain that some believe the matter of the three-oneness of God?
@sonship saidIf Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus was sent by God and if they obey Jesus' commandments, isn't that a good thing? You think they will be tortured for eternity?
You must know that the Jehovah's Witnesses join you in fighting against One God and Father - Son - Holy Spirit. You don't want to be like them do you ?
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Divegeester,
Did you watch the debate ? Did you feel the Unitarian side presented their arguments well ? I think they did. But I am more persuaded that the arguments for the trinity were better.
But within my being, I cannot tell any separation between the Holy Spirit and the Father and the Son.
In our Table Meetings in many local churches at the end we turn our worship more towards the Father. The first part are praises and thanksgivings to the Son. Towards the end wonderfully we direct more of our praises to the Father. Or we may offer high praises to the Three Who work as One - the Triune God.
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27 Nov 18
If divegeester doesn't come with an anti-Trinity doctrine that you believe is better than what you believe and an anti- torturer God ideology that you believe is more morally coherent than the doctrine that you believe, could it have a negative impact on his "salvation" ~ according to your own understanding?
But remember. It doesn't matter to you one way or another. You're an Atheist.
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27 Nov 18
Is there evidence that I was a Christian? Perhaps not. No. I can't think of anything. But I am an atheist, sonship. And there is plenty of evidence of that. Meanwhile, you are a Christian and you claim certain things about yourself with regard to that. What can someone here witness here aside from you typing and copy pasting lots of stuff?
You don't care. Remember? It means nothing to you anyway.
27 Nov 18
@sonship saidWolfgang59 has no interest in your beliefs sonship. However I do.
@divegeester
I suspect that even an outsider to the faith like wolfgang would like to know WHY you want to know something anyway.
The question of whether the rejection of the trinity doctrine precludes someone from salvation is important because your other erroneous belief is that your version of Jesus will be personally in hell overseeing to the eternal torture of those people who do reject it. People like me.
So I’ve been asking you for three years if my rejection of the trinity teaching will impact me in this way and you refuse to answer.
We both know why; it’s obvious and it is interesting to observe.