Calling out Sonship on the trinity and salvation

@kellyjay said
You don’t remember?

I am asking you what you are striving to be that you think you cannot be without "Jesus"? The answer to a question about KellyJay's beliefs is in KellyJay's head.

@kellyjay said
You don’t remember?

Ah, so you are assuming your discursive foetal position again.

@sonship said
@divegeester

Divegeester wants to cloud the issue.

Hardly, considering this is my thread, my topic.

Because it IS your thread and topic, it is more likely so.

You are being asked an honest salvation related issue regarding your beliefs and you are refusing to answer.

Why is that?

@fmf said
Ah, so you are assuming your discursive foetal position again.

Sonship and KellyJay!

Hilarious.

@kellyjay said
You don’t remember?

The leaders at sonship's church (and presumably sonship himself) believe I'm to hell to be burnt alive for eternity by the Jesus I think is my Saviour. Sonship however is not ignoring me.

You don't agree with sonship's and his church leaders pov and therefore agree that if I claim to be a christian then I am one. However you have me on "ignore".

And somehow in all this, I'm the bad guy because I ask awkward questions.

@sonship said
@divegeester

Divegeester wants to cloud the issue.

Hardly, considering this is my thread, my topic.

Because it IS your thread and topic, it is more likely so.

@divegeester said
I am simply asking you what you believe regarding what YOUR church claims about a salvation based issue.

@sonship
Here is a copy/paste from the statement of beliefs from the website of your own church:

”In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.”

https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/salvation/


Summation: I don’t believe in the trinity doctrine and therefore you cannot classify me as Christian, and therefore I will burn in Hell with the rest Of the unbelievers.

Sonship, is this summation by me correct or not

@fmf said
I am asking you what you are striving to be that you think you cannot be without "Jesus"? The answer to a question about KellyJay's beliefs is in KellyJay's head.

Yes, I saw your question and I asked you don't you remember since you were once a Christian. The basics you should know and if you didn't retain that...

@kellyjay said
Yes, I saw your question and I asked you don't you remember since you were once a Christian. The basics you should know and if you didn't retain that...

I am asking you about your belief not somebody else's. I am an agnostic atheist. If it helps you shake off your recurring. passive aggressive discursive paralysis, just tell yourself I am lying about having been a Christian.

@fmf said
I am asking you about your belief not somebody else's. I am an agnostic atheist. If it helps you shake off your recurring. passive aggressive discursive paralysis, just tell yourself I am lying about having been a Christian.

You are a backslider too, and as such the most fundamental questions of the Christian faith you were exposed to, so I'm not going to engage you with those. They didn't stick when you believed in them for however many years why would my words matter? If these things come up in conversations, okay, but I'm not going to worry about it.

@kellyjay said
Yes, I saw your question and I asked you don't you remember since you were once a Christian. The basics you should know and if you didn't retain that...

I’m supposing that since you are still using this rhetorical gimmick to hide behind and avoid answering laser focus spot on questions about your particular beliefs and your version of Jesus, that you think it’s somehow effective in this forum. Let’s look together at why it isn’t...

1) it makes you look like a coward who is scared of honest scrutiny about your beliefs and incapable of defending your position when in a pinch.

2) pretending that what you at this time believe about a certain Christian topic, doctrine or attitude is the same as what FMF or any other Christian believed 20 or so years ago is plain silly. Just look around this forum - every single Christian poster, bar none, has differing beliefs and opinions about Christianity.

3) an addendum to #2. FMF was a Catholic and you are, as far as I can tell, Protestant in terms of the original of your creeds. The chances that your current doctrine or teaching will align with Catholic teaching is low. Even on the simplest of doctrines there exist chasms of differences across these two arms of the faith.

4) FMF is old and crocked. He’s been around for many years and while his brain is generally as sharp as a male pencil stranded on a desert island with a bunch of female pencil sharpeners...it is highly likely that he has forgotten much of what he was taught about a religion he has for many many years been slipping away from.

5) I know from personal conversations with FMF that his theological knowledge is not the best. He readily acknowledges this and you will see that his posting is orientated from humanistic premise.

So there are five very good reasons why you should not hide behind this “you should remember” ploy when you are under the steely FMF gaze. It’s not big, it’s not clever and it makes you look like a weasely douchebag.

You’re welcome.

@kellyjay said
You are a backslider too, and as such the most fundamental questions of the Christian faith you were exposed to, so I'm not going to engage you with those. They didn't stick when you believed in them for however many years why would my words matter? If these things come up in conversations, okay, but I'm not going to worry about it.

What is it about your faith that causes you to assume this defensive/deflective crouch time and time again?

@fmf said
What is it about your faith that causes you to assume this defensive/deflective crouch time and time again?

You can say what you will, but if you ask me questions you should know the answers to I'm not going spend time on those things. We have actually gone of this ground before too where I did answer your questions, they don't stick with you, you don't want them to I supposed who knows. You cannot even bring yourself in explaining what you did know, if you cannot do that what purpose is it for you to ask someone else to do what you refuse to?

@kellyjay said
You can say what you will, but if you ask me questions you should know the answers to I'm not going spend time on those things. We have actually gone of this ground before too where I did answer your questions, they don't stick with you, you don't want them to I supposed who knows. You cannot even bring yourself in explaining what you did know, if you cannot do that what purpose is it for you to ask someone else to do what you refuse to?

I ask you questions about the things you claim about the things you say you believe because I am interested in your explanations and justifications for those claims and beliefs. I am interested in your current beliefs.

@kellyjay said
Yes, I saw your question and I asked you don't you remember since you were once a Christian. The basics you should know and if you didn't retain that...

I am an atheist asking you, a theist, about your Christian beliefs. If I wanted to sift through and assess what I believed 15 years ago, 20 years ago, 25, 30, 35 years ago and compare it to some Christians' current beliefs, I'd probably just go to a Christian website where there were threads or sub-forums that cater to that. But I don't.

I am interested in talking about my current beliefs [and my current beliefs about Christian beliefs are no secret] and I am interested in talking about your current beliefs.

@fmf said
I am an atheist asking you, a theist, about your Christian beliefs. If I wanted to sift through and assess what I believed 15 years ago, 20 years ago, 25, 30, 35 years ago and compare it to your current beliefs, I'd probably just go to a Christian website where some threads or sub-forums cater to that. But I don't.

I am interested in talking about my current beliefs [and my c ...[text shortened]... fs about Christian beliefs are no secret] and I am interested in talking about your current beliefs.

You are also a backslider asking me to go over basic doctrine we have gone over before. You cannot bring yourself to share what you once believed, and ask me the same questions over and over. Read the Bible, it may come back to you.