12 Sep 15
Originally posted by SuzianneDo you believe that the way in which the Hebrews are "still paying for" the transgression you mention is in accordance with God's will?
Imploring us to "feel" for the ones who were judged by God and found lacking is exactly the same mistake the Hebrews made. And they're still paying for it.
12 Sep 15
(2 Peter 3:3) First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires
(2 Peter 3:5-7) For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.
It doesn't seem to be a course of wisdom to ignore history.
Rather we should find out what we need to do to gain the benefits of the new heavens and new earth that are to come soon.
(2 Peter 3:13) But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by roigam(2 Peter 3:3) First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires
(2 Peter 3:5-7) For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.
You asked what people thought the Flood was all about. I offered my interpretation, it is you who is characterizing it as "ridicule".
"...in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule"
You're not seriously suggesting that my answer to your question on the previous page ("ridicule" according to you) is a sign that mankind is "in the last days", are you?
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by roigamWhen someone disagrees with you, it does not mean that you are living in the "last days".
(2 Peter 3:3) First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires
(2 Peter 3:5-7) For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of ...[text shortened]... new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.
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Originally posted by FMFNo that was it was what I called "sinocide".
So that's a 'Yes, the justification for genocide is aimed at those who already believe the genocide was justified' , then?
When I believed that is not that relevant, whether beforehand of understanding the Scripture initially or or deeper understanding sometime afterward.
It should be very obvious to any reader of the Old Testament that the identical harshness that fell upon other nations for their sins ALSO fell occasionally upon God's own elect nation of Israel.
Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah among other books dismantle any theory of the Old Testament being only baised propaganda aimed against the non-Jewish nations.
If you don't get that point from reading the Old Testament you must be as blind as a bat.
You really can gather that warning from the 28th chapter of Deuteronomy. Read that chapter and tell me if God does or does not warn Israel of the awful curses which will befall them if they depart from God and act like the surrounding nations.
Now since you desire to hold my feet to the flame I in turn am not going to let you go so easily. So then I renew my question to you rom weeks ago -
If I drop my faith in Christ and tin the Bible and pick up YOUR philosophy with all its trappings and leanings, of what benefit will it be to me ? Of what benefit will it be to those around me ?
Since you persist in questioning, you shouldn't mind. Of what VALUE to me is your philosophy anyway, above my faith in Christ ?
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Originally posted by twhitehead
5. The whole thing just stinks of after the fact justification for genocide by the Jews and by the lecturer and by you.
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I know you are not an American. But I would ask you if you were are you Pro Life as regards to the 50 million or more human babies killed before birth ?
If you are bothered about a holocaust of human deaths as seen in the the Old Testament do you have a similar feeling about the millions of aborted children throughout the world ?
Besides, you have already reduced human beings to machine like chalk boards ready for handy erasing as far as I can see from your beliefs about us just being stored information.
Are you Pro-Choice or Pro-Life ?
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by sonshipI don't have to try to replace the things you have in your imagination or try to trump the superstitions you propagate in order to point out the incoherence or lack of intellectual integrity that underpins some of the things you believe and that you declare to be true in a public arena. You proselytize an ideology about supernatural beings. I do not. We are not in competition.
Of what VALUE to me is your philosophy anyway, above my faith in Christ ?
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by sonshipDoes it ever trouble you that the "evidence" you imagine your God figure has given to you for your argument supporting the mass murder of the Canaanites was written by the people who carried out the mass murder?
When I believed that is not that relevant, whether beforehand of understanding the Scripture initially or or deeper understanding sometime afterward.
Originally posted by sonshipI don't know. Perhaps you'd have an emotional breakdown. Or perhaps you would flourish. I really can't say. I am not advising you to give up your religious beliefs ~ not if it helps you cope with life [and behave in a morally sound way] and if it helps you come to terms with the inevitability and finality of death, and thus gives you some degree of solace or distraction.
If I drop my faith in Christ and tin the Bible and pick up YOUR philosophy with all its trappings and leanings, of what benefit will it be to me ? Of what benefit will it be to those around me ?
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Originally posted by FMFI don't have to try to replace the things you have in your imagination
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Well, that's gentlemanly nice of you. However, this ASSUMES that the Gospel is just my imagination, a point you have not proved.
Your failure in that regard does look nice though, in being dressed up as you not wanting to replace my alleged daydreams.[edited] Kind of noble sounding too.
Jesus of Nazareth is not the product of my imagination.
Not by a long shot.
or try to trump the superstitions
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Again, no proof from you that Christ is superstition.
You can assume that or hope that. But its your wishful assertion.
you propagate
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There is such a thing as true propaganda.
Genetic Fallacy would hold all propaganda is untrue.
in order to point out the incoherence or lack of intellectual integrity that underpins some of the things you believe and that you declare to be true in a public arena.
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I was wondering when your old flag of personal ad homs would be raised again. For a brief moment I was thinking "FMF seems to have changed his old style."
Guess you're back now to your old tried and true methods of going after the guy's character.
You proselytize an ideology about supernatural beings. I do not. We are not in competition.
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Oh not Proselytyzing !!
Imagination, No intellectual integrity, and PROSELYTYZING.
Well, these are all handy dodges to the fact that your joyless disgruntled complaints against the glorious Gospel, offer nothing better. You know you don't have to read my posts. You don't have to invite your reading by stringing along lame questions invoking me to talk to you.
And if you ask ? and ask ?? and ask ??? then I have every right to question you too. Right ?
I do not. We are not in competition
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You string along question after question after question precisely because you ARE in competition.
The underlying insinuation is that YOUR relentlessly cynical product is superior. So I ask you just HOW it is superior. And suddenly you can't really say how it is.
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by sonshipYour concept of "perfect justice" is morally bankrupt. You use only Hebrew accounts to justify a genocide perpetrated by the Hebrews and to demonize the enemies of the Hebrews who were victims of that genocide. Your propagation of the credibility of the Bible is entirely reliant on circular logic. So, once again, I point out the incoherence or lack of intellectual integrity that underpins some of the things you believe and that you declare to be true in a public arena.
I was wondering when your old flag of personal ad homs would raise its head again.
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by sonshipIf your religious beliefs allow you to live a moral life and help you to deal with its ups and downs or make some sense of it, then good for you, and if declaring yourself to be immortal helps you to face the inevitability and finality of death, and so affords you some consolation or comfort, then that's fine.
And if you ask [b]? and ask ?? and ask ??? then I have every right to question you too. Right ?[/b]
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by sonshipI didn't say Jesus of Nazareth is the "product" of your imagination. But his meaning and significance ~ as claimed by Christians ~ is something that does reside in your imagination and in the imaginations of all those who share the same ideology as you do..
Jesus of Nazareth is not the product of my imagination.
Not by a long shot.