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Originally posted by FMFYour concept of "perfect justice" is morally bankrupt.
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You deserve to be punished by God.
Me too - even more so.
It would be justice for you and I to get what should be coming to us.
The good news is that God has caused this condemnation to fall upon His Son on Calvary that we may be justified.
You use only Hebrew accounts to justify a genocide perpetrated by the Hebrews and to demonize the enemies of the Hebrews who were victims of that genocide.
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Ruth was a Moabitess. The Moabites were excluded from entering into the congregation of the Yahweh until the 10th generation. One entire book is dedicated to God's grace overruling this misfortune because she sought God and God's people.
You don't listen.
You dnn't really want to hear.
Rehab the harlot in the cursed city of Jericho serves as another example of God's over ruling grace.
And let's not forget the book of Jonah the disgruntled prophet who ran away from God because he WANTED the enemies of Israel to get it !
You have no case FMF.
Well your case is less than really strong because of things written in this same Bible.
Let's also throw in that the Jews rejected their Messiah and the Gospel of grace went out to ALL the Gentile nations. That was WRITTEN by Jews FMF.
Matthew - a Jew.
John - a Jew.
Peter - a Jew.
Paul - a Jew.
Luke the exception - a Gentile.
But James, Jude, certainly the author of the book of Hebrews - all Jews.
The New Testament authored by Jews, by men of Israel. We don't sweep this under the rug. We deal with it.
Jonah - an entire Old Testament book dedicated to the teaching about God's RELUCTANCE to have to judge a non-Jewish nation, not His eagerness to do so.
And I like the last sentence in the book of Jonah. God knew precisely how many people in that city of Nenivah should be excempted from impending punishment.
Jonah 3:11 - "And I, [God] should I not have pity on Nineveh, the great city in which are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot discern between their right hand and their left, and many cattle ? "
What happen to the Jewish prophets salivating to portray Israel's enemies as only ripe for divine punishment ?
God was saying in essence " You want me to kill everyone in that city. But I know of the actual COUNT of people who I would not want to so judge - over 120,000 human beings. "
I have to take these passages along with others. You can just shop selectively for what turns you off.
Originally posted by sonshipPresumably this is all coherent to you. But it isn't to me and other non-Christians. It is you who is making the extraordinary claims about supernatural things. The burden of proof is on you.
You deserve to be punished by God. Me too. It would be justice for you and I to get what should be coming to us. The good news is that God has caused this condemnation to fall upon His Son on Calvary that we may be justified.
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by sonshipIt's you who has to make the case. What other historical sources are there that you can cite that detail the alleged "depravity" of the Canaanites ~ which has been used to justify the genocide visited upon them ~ aside from the scripture that their enemies (and the perpetrators of the the genocide) the Hebrews wrote themselves?
You have no case FMF.
Well your case is less than really strong because of things written in this same Bible.
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Originally posted by FMFWhat is incoherent about me saying that you deserve to be punished by God ?
Presumably this is all coherent to you. But it isn't to me and other non-Christians. You are making the extraordinary claims about supernatural things. The burden of proof is on you.
You can say you don't believe it.
You should not have any problem understanding what is perfectly coherent.
You don't mean you cannot comprehend it. You mean you simply don't believe it. You don't believe Christ came to save sinners.
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12 Sep 15
Originally posted by FMFDo you believe God is imperfect ?
You asserting that what you claim is "perfect justice" is "perfectly coherent" does not make your notion of justice coherent.
Do you believe God is less than we are ?
If so, YOU shoulder some burden to explain how a Creator inferior to us endowed us with more goodness and righteousness than He had to impart.
12 Sep 15
Originally posted by sonshipWhen you say "God", you mean your God figure?
Do you believe God is imperfect ?
Do you believe God is less than we are ?
If so, YOU shoulder some burden to explain how a Creator inferior to us endowed us with more goodness and righteousness than He had to impart.
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12 Sep 15
Originally posted by FMFTell me this. Have you noticed that in many many cases of murders of loved ones or others, the killer will at the end turn the weapon on himself and commit suicide.
Why do I deserve it? You have to explain why. Just asserting that you believe it is true does not make it coherent.
Have you noticed this is many domestic shootings ? Why does the killer so often lastly blow himself away ?
1.) He knows he cannot live with himself after what he has done.
2.) He knows he will face punishment for his guilt in this life.
3.) Maybe he assumes that killing himself will bring him into oblivion and he will not have to live with his conscience.
Are you innocent FMF ?
Could we line up all the people you have known throughout your whole life and hear them vouch for you that you deserve no punishment for things you did ?
Well, we cannot do anything like that. But God knows everything. And you may not like it. But I like that He has already made provision for my justification before His perfection on the day of judgement.
You have not been persuaded.
I have been persuaded.
I have been persuaded of the realism of this.
Imagination? You mentioned imagination ? That we are not known and not seen by God - THAT is imagination.
Fortunately, He also looks beyond our faults and sees our needs as proved by the Savior Christ .
Originally posted by sonshipTell me this. Have you noticed that in many many cases of murders of loved ones or others, the killer will at the end turn the weapon on himself and commit suicide.
Have you noticed this is many domestic shootings ? Why does the killer so often lastly blow himself away ?
1.) He knows he cannot live with himself after what he has done.
2.) He knows he will face punishment for his guilt in this life.
3.) Maybe he assumes that killing himself will bring him into oblivion and he will not have to live with his conscience.
Are you innocent FMF ?
I have never come anywhere near killing anyone and nor have I ever come close to committing suicide.
What are you suggesting that I'm 'not innocent' of?