30 Sep 13
Originally posted by galveston75Well thank you for that. You have enlightened me and I won't the same mistake again. As for the part about never seeing RJHinds at my door, I'll be glad about that! 🙂
Hummm. Not quite true. I have been a JW all my life and I've never been told, heard from the stage or have read in any book that we "have to convert" anyone within our lifetime.
We have no such rule or command. We come to your door only to share the "good news" that Jesus shared with all he came into contact with and that is with the hope that some wo ...[text shortened]... least why it is to be done and even if he did he has no spiritual knowledge to "instruct" with.
30 Sep 13
Originally posted by RJHindsIf everybody did that, we would have a barrage of "The teacher", "The prostitute", "The pizza delivery person" and so forth. It looks ridiculous and is rather embarrassing.
Why should you criticize me for that. I was an Instructor in the U.S. Army Signal School. I am honorably retired now. However, I am now instructing the ignorant, like yourself, about the good news of Christ.
The Instructor
30 Sep 13
Originally posted by Rajk999Oh please dude...
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight . . . " (Rom. 3:20)
"for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law," (Rom. 3:28)
"For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness'" (Rom. 4:3)
"Therefore, having been justified by faith . . . " (Rom. 5:1)
Rom. 3:28-29, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also?
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
Gal. 3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."
Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
30 Sep 13
3 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterA bunch of quotes which you clearly do not understand.
Oh please dude...
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight . . . " (Rom. 3:20)
"for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law," (Rom. 3:28)
"For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness'" (Rom. 4:3)
"Therefore, having be ...[text shortened]... which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
I will take the trouble to educate you because what happens to many Christians is that they would like to believe that you can say with your mouth that they believe in Christ and that works is an insult to Christ .. they therefore continue on with they worldly, greedy selfish sinful lifestyle oblivious to the fact that they are heading to damnation.
The Book of Romans in the first few chapters which you quoted extensively from, is a discourse to the Jews, who believed that they were in some superior position to the Gentiles and that it was necessary to follow the Law of Moses and to be circumcised etc. Hence Pauls constant reference to the works of the Law of Moses not being able to save anyone and that Christ is the new saviour of both Jews and Gentiles. If you are interested in understanding rather than blindly quoting please read Romans chapters 1 - 5.
There is nothing in your references which contradict what Christ or James or John said about the requirement to do good works in order to get eternal life. Good works is required otherwise you are heading to damnation.
Obviously you and your type have abandoned the teachings of Christ and chosen the path of sin and evil. Good luck with that.
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30 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999
A bunch of quotes which you clearly do not understand.
I will take the trouble to educate you because what happens to many Christians is that they would like to believe that you can say with your mouth that they believe in Christ and that works is an insult to Christ .. they therefore continue on with they worldly, greedy selfish sinful lifestyle obliviou ...[text shortened]... have abandoned the teachings of Christ and chosen the path of sin and evil. Good luck with that.
I will take the trouble to educate you because what happens to many Christians is that they would like to believe that you can say with your mouth that they believe in Christ and that works is an insult to Christ .. they therefore continue on with they worldly, greedy selfish sinful lifestyle oblivious to the fact that they are heading to damnation.
So you think that the answer to every single problem of Christian arrested maturity is only damnation ?
So you think damnation is God's one answer to any and all spiritual problems of His redeemed people ?
01 Oct 13
Originally posted by Rajk999I don't think you have ever seen anyone here say we will not do good
A bunch of quotes which you clearly do not understand.
I will take the trouble to educate you because what happens to many Christians is that they would like to believe that you can say with your mouth that they believe in Christ and that works is an insult to Christ .. they therefore continue on with they worldly, greedy selfish sinful lifestyle obliviou ...[text shortened]... have abandoned the teachings of Christ and chosen the path of sin and evil. Good luck with that.
works, the works are a physical manifestation of us walking out our faith, it
is our faith that causes us to do the works that matters
Kelly
01 Oct 13
2 edits
Originally posted by sonshipIf you want me to respond to your posts you need to use language that is used in the Bible. eg the Bible does not contain the term 'Triune God' so I cannot know what that means notwithstanding your lengthy explanations.
[quote] I will take the trouble to educate you because what happens to many Christians is that they would like to believe that you can say with your mouth that they believe in Christ and that works is an insult to Christ .. they therefore continue on with they worldly, greedy selfish sinful lifestyle oblivious to the fact that they are heading to damnation. ...[text shortened]... u think damnation is God's one answer to any and all spiritual problems of His redeemed people ?
The Bible says nothing about 'Christian arrested maturity' so I dont really know what that means.
I will point out that there are a couple verses that seems to answer your question:
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Hebrews 10:38-39 KJV)
I hope you understand it. Its pretty clear and there are several such statements in the New Testament. So your explanations which are contrary to the Bible are just plain nonsense.
01 Oct 13
Originally posted by KellyJayI have heard many say that good works are an insult to Christ, and that they live by faith only. Works means you dont what the gift of salvation .. etc.
I don't think you have ever seen anyone here say we will not do good
works, the works are a physical manifestation of us walking out our faith, it
is our faith that causes us to do the works that matters
Kelly
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01 Oct 13
1 edit
I may have missed it, but was it said in this thread?
I have seen it said too, but the context is what matters.
If someone thinks Christ dying for them is not enough that they have to
earn God's grace and mercy, I'd say that is an insult, you do not earn a
gift.
To be very clear here I am NOT saying we will not work as we obey the
Lord we will do the good works He has for us, we cannot call Him Lord if we are
not obeying Him! Our righteousness is found in Him, that has been finished,
and now we walk out our faith obeying God.
Kelly
01 Oct 13
3 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999"Me and my type" I guess you mean I'm an apostate too?
A bunch of quotes which you clearly do not understand.
I will take the trouble to educate you because what happens to many Christians is that they would like to believe that you can say with your mouth that they believe in Christ and that works is an insult to Christ .. they therefore continue on with they worldly, greedy selfish sinful lifestyle obliviou ...[text shortened]... have abandoned the teachings of Christ and chosen the path of sin and evil. Good luck with that.
You post one scripture to support your claim that justification by works is a correct doctrine and you feel comfortable with that. I post a plethora or counter scriptures trying to show you that you cannot take a single scripture and build a doctrine around it, and I become a "type".
Hmm, you seem to be unable to to open your mind to the slightest learning and prefer instead to sleight other Christians such as sonship who is one of the last people hear I would accuse of being an apostate, especially on the mere grounds that I disagreed with him.
01 Oct 13
Originally posted by KellyJayAnd the way you phrase it it sounds fine. But if you say that you are saved once you accept Christ with your mouth and after that you cannot lose your salvation then thats total nonsense.
I may have missed it, but was it said in this thread?
I have seen it said too, but the context is what matters.
If someone thinks Christ dying for them is not enough that they have to
earn God's grace and mercy, I'd say that is an insult, you do not earn a
gift.
To be very clear here I am NOT saying we will not work as we obey the
Lord we will d ...[text shortened]... ness is found in Him, that has been finished,
and now we walk out our faith obeying God.
Kelly
01 Oct 13
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterI quoted several not one.
"Me and my type" I guess you mean I'm an apostate too?
You post one scripture to support your claim that justification by works is a correct doctrine and you feel comfortable with that. I post a plethora or counter scriptures trying to show you that you cannot take a singe scripture and build a doctrine around it, and I become a "type".
Hmm, you s ...[text shortened]... ear I would accuse of being am apostate, especially on the mere grounds th I disagreed with him.
I pointed out to you that of the Romans quotes you posted Paul was speaking to the Jews about the Law of Moses. You are taking the phrase 'works of the Law' to mean all good works. whereas it means the works of the Law of Moses. Have you got a comment about that?
I never said you are an apostate. Jaywill/sonship is though. He is preaching a totally new doctrine about the Triune God which the Apostles did not preach. We on the other hand are thrashing out an interpretation of what the Apostles did actually say. There is a big difference.
01 Oct 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999No you quote one verse, bottom of page 2.
I quoted several not one.
I pointed out to you that of the Romans quotes you posted Paul was speaking to the Jews about the Law of Moses. You are taking the phrase 'works of the Law' to mean all good works. whereas it means the works of the Law of Moses. Have you got a comment about that?
I never said you are an apostate. Jaywill/sonship is though. He ...[text shortened]... hrashing out an interpretation of what the Apostles did actually say. There is a big difference.
I'll be frank with you I find your accusations of apostasy a little offensive. I think you are presenting yourself as quite puffed up and self righteous in your opinion and your works (whatever they are, and im not interested so dont bother bragging about them) which is your business until you start accusing other Christians of apostasy.