@divegeester saidBetter check your facts dive.
Only the first thief mocked Jesus, not the one who Jesus spoke to.
@secondson saidLuke says “one” and I prefer his account for various reasons. It doesn’t really matter.
Better check your facts dive.
@secondson saidThere is only one account in the gospels with sufficient details about this event to form any conclusion. Here it is [if there is another please provide it]
Dodge.
The thief was going to hell. The thief was cursing and mocking Jesus like the other. What changed Rajk? What did the thief do so that Jesus told him he would be in paradise?
Show some integrity.
And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:39-43 KJV)
There were two malefactors:
1. An evil man who enjoyed sin and evil, and who demanded that Jesus save him despite his evil ways [sounds a lot like Christians today].
2. A good man who acknowledged his error and that he was paying for his deeds. Clearly he was also repentant. Jesus welcomed into His Kingdom.
Take note. This is how judgment day will play out. The ones who demand that Jesus saves them and who continue to sin will be cast out. This first malefactor is similar to todays Christian churches.
Several other points emerge here which are contrary to Christian teachings
- that professions of faith are required for eternal life
- that a man needs to be baptised
- that a man needs to be born-again in the church [Jesus is able to do whatever is necessary to welcome people into His Kingdom]
- that nobody can be good unless they profess faith in Christ.
Jesus knows the heart of man, and it is by this criteria ALL people will be judged, some to inherit eternal life and others to be destroyed.
@Rajk999
Rajk999 highlights what he finds as errors:
Several other points emerge here which are contrary to Christian teachings
- that professions of faith are required for eternal life
Romans 10:9 teaches that if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart about the risen Lord Jesus you will be saved. There is no auxiliary that if you are dumb and cannot speak you will be condemned.
- that a man needs to be baptised
You harp and harp on obeying the commands of Jesus. And this is the FIRST thing He commanded, to be baptized.
"Go therefore and disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you ..." (Matt. 28:19,20a)
No, I am not teaching baptismal regeneration. And no, I am not arguing for baptismal remission. I am simply saying "all that I have commanded you" starts with producing disciples of Jesus (believers in Jesus) plunging them into the triune God symbolized by baptizing them into water.
What a first concrete act of obedience the believer should then follow.
- that a man needs to be born-again in the church [Jesus is able to do whatever is necessary to welcome people into His Kingdom]
A human being is not a part of the church until he is born again.
You don't understand either regeneration (as in born of the Spirit) and you don't understand the organic nature of the church.
You don't join her as you would "join" the YMCA or a fraternity or sorority. You are spiritually BORN to become apart of her. And that regardless of traditions of the religious. Before you are born again you are not of the church.
- that nobody can be good unless they profess faith in Christ.
Christ Himself is made man's righteousness - and he is justified according to God's standard of goodness by being in Christ.
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God:
both righteousness and sanctification and redemption, that as it is written, "He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord." (1 Cor. 1:30,31)
Position-ally, the sinner's problem of unrighteousness is solved for eternity by Christ being FOR him - righteousness . And that even the very righteousness of God Himself !
You are playing with fire by reading these truths and not believing them. You should take them to God in prayer.
Second Corinthians 5:21 -
"Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor. 5:21)
@sonship saidNonsense.
@Rajk999
Rajk999 highlights what he finds as errors:
Several other points emerge here which are contrary to Christian teachings
- that professions of faith are required for eternal life
Romans 10:9 teaches that if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart about the risen Lord Jesus you will be saved. There is no auxiliary that i ...[text shortened]... sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor. 5:21) [/b] [/quote]
@divegeester saidJust goes to show how little you know the gospels.
Luke says “one” and I prefer his account for various reasons. It doesn’t really matter.
Luke does not record the dialogue between Jesus and the thief except to say, "And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left."
Nor does Luke's account say anything about how the "two" thieves mocked Jesus along with the crowd. Nice to know you get your facts of the crucifixion from a "pack of cards".
You dodged the point I was making to Rajk just as he did. You're in league with a heretic.
James was a very respected and pious Jewish Christian. He had one foot in the old time Law keeping and one foot in the new covenant. He as not too clear that a big change had taken place.
He refers to the Christians meeting in synagogues (James 2:2). This shows that the transition from Judiasm to the new covenant church was still underway in James' time.
Eventually, all the Jesus believers had to leave all the synagogues. In James' day they were still trying to be a subset of Judaism. This was what Jesus may have referred to by putting new wine into old wineskins. It won't work.
It seems natural for them to have tried at first. I appreciate James' book. But I understand his limitations. These limitations were surpassed in the writings of Paul.
@sonship saidIndeed! I was looking in Mark 15. My bad.
@SecondSonLuke does not record the dialogue between Jesus and the thief except to say, "And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left."
Double check Luke 23:43.
Typo ?