21 Oct 20
The utterly shameful face of American politics is reflected in the appalling fact that no one openly claims atheism, although Arizona Democrat Krysten Sinema says she is “religiously unaffiliated”. What hope is there for an enlightened leader to emerge from the evangelical, bible-bashing fundamentalists who know they are right because they have read the holy book.
George Bush Senior (when asked whether he recognized the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists): 'No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be conspired patriots. This is one nation under God.'
What a depressingly fatuous comment.
@pianoman1 saidThe USA is God-fearing nation built on principles of Christianity. Americans should not be afraid to promote the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. If atheists are shy about promoting their atheist faith, then the only reasonable conclusion is that they are unsure of their belief.
The utterly shameful face of American politics is reflected in the appalling fact that no one openly claims atheism, although Arizona Democrat Krysten Sinema says she is “religiously unaffiliated”. What hope is there for an enlightened leader to emerge from the evangelical, bible-bashing fundamentalists who know they are right because they have read the holy book.
Georg ...[text shortened]... d they be conspired patriots. This is one nation under God.'
What a depressingly fatuous comment.
@rajk999 saidBut the point was some idiots in the US think it’s ok to coerce Atheists to hide their Atheism. If Theist are confident in their beliefs they shouldn’t need or want the state to give them a protected status. It’s meant to be a democracy not a theocracy.
The USA is God-fearing nation built on principles of Christianity. Americans should not be afraid to promote the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. If atheists are shy about promoting their atheist faith, then the only reasonable conclusion is that they are unsure of their belief.
If they want to join the enlightened world they should scrap that archaic assumption.
@kevcvs57 saidThe USA is a democracy based on the principles of Christianity. The idiots are on both sides of the fence. Christians face more abuse as the number of atheists climb. Enlightened does not mean giving more rights to people who condemn the god-fearing.
But the point was some idiots in the US think it’s ok to coerce Atheists to hide their Atheism. If Theist are confident in their beliefs they shouldn’t need or want the state to give them a protected status. It’s meant to be a democracy not a theocracy.
If they want to join the enlightened world they should scrap that archaic assumption.
21 Oct 20
@rajk999 saidI would say your right about the idiots on both sides and nothing particular to the US in that but to retain a de facto demand in a believe in god in order to take part in something so intrinsic to citizenship is a bit.
The USA is a democracy based on the principles of Christianity. The idiots are on both sides of the fence. Christians face more abuse as the number of atheists climb. Enlightened does not mean giving more rights to people who condemn the god-fearing.
Recognition that Atheists and Agnostics exist as equal citizens isn’t an attack on Theists.
21 Oct 20
@kevcvs57 saidWould you say that atheists and agnostic Americans respect the religious God-fearing Americans the same way they would like to be respected? I dont think so.
I would say your right about the idiots on both sides and nothing particular to the US in that but to retain a de facto demand in a believe in god in order to take part in something so intrinsic to citizenship is a bit.
Recognition that Atheists and Agnostics exist as equal citizens isn’t an attack on Theists.
21 Oct 20
@rajk999 saidAgain that’s irrelevant do you think the dogma driven theists treat anyone but their own with respect.
Would you say that atheists and agnostic Americans respect the religious God-fearing Americans the same way they would like to be respected? I dont think so.
The question is surely wether the state in a democracy should side with those who believe in the existence of supernatural creatures and therefor against those who don’t?
21 Oct 20
@kevcvs57 saidYes, some do and some dont. The extremists on both side is not the rule. The US is a not a normal democracy, but one based on Christian principles. You are not understanding that point and that is the flaw in your argument. It is going to an impossible task for atheists to gain equal footing with the religious, and rightly so in my view. This is the reason why Trump is likely to win. He is an ass but he is on the side of Christians and Christian principles enshrined in the constitution and in the whole psyche of the US.
Again that’s irrelevant do you think the dogma driven theists treat anyone but their own with respect.
The question is surely wether the state in a democracy should side with those who believe in the existence of supernatural creatures and therefor against those who don’t?
21 Oct 20
@rajk999 saidOh yeah sorry I see your argument now ‘might is right’ no arguing with that. Except it’s no argument at all.
Yes, some do and some dont. The extremists on both side is not the rule. The US is a not a normal democracy, but one based on Christian principles. You are not understanding that point and that is the flaw in your argument. It is going to an impossible task for atheists to gain equal footing with the religious, and rightly so in my view. This is the reason why Trump is lik ...[text shortened]... Christians and Christian principles enshrined in the constitution and in the whole psyche of the US.
You have given no reason as to why you think it’s right.
My argument as to why it’s wrong would be based on things like freedom of conscience and the rank hypocrisy of a whole bunch of Atheists and Agnostics pledging allegiance to ‘one nation under ( an imaginary creature) god’.
@kevcvs57 saidThats the problem ... calling peoples God an imaginary creature is not going to endear you to them, and they will deliberately try to screw you over whenever they can, and they will use the bible to support what they do ... so yes, might is right.
Oh yeah sorry I see your argument now ‘might is right’ no arguing with that. Except it’s no argument at all.
You have given no reason as to why you think it’s right.
My argument as to why it’s wrong would be based on things like freedom of conscience and the rank hypocrisy of a whole bunch of Atheists and Agnostics pledging allegiance to ‘one nation under ( an imaginary creature) god’.
21 Oct 20
@philokalia saidhttps://www.newsweek.com/franklin-graham-pence-lead-prayer-march-thanking-god-trump-scotus-nominee-1534451
But I don't know Christians saying that
I think you are strawmanning here.
"Franklin Graham, Pence Lead Prayer March Thanking God for Trump"
Franklin Graham is the son of Billy Graham.
21 Oct 20
@rajk999 saidWell from a Atheistic perspective god is an imaginary creature but that’s another discussion but if you cannot accept that then let the bullets fly.
Thats the problem ... calling peoples God an imaginary creature is not going to endear you to them, and they will deliberately try to screw you over whenever they can, and they will use the bible to support what they do ... so yes, might is right.
It’s not the responsibility of atheists to change their world view in order to get respect from theists and vice versa people should respect each other despite their views.
The Bible cannot be used to support any argument with an atheist or agnostic because it’s just a story to them but we should be able to accommodate each other. Perhaps their should be two oaths of allegiance, one for the monotheists and one for everyone else that doesn’t include a reference to god.
21 Oct 20
@kevcvs57 saidIts not Christian's responsibility to change the world view of atheists either. Tolerance is the key on both sides and both sides have failed. The thing is Christians expect, some of them hope for, some relish, the day when bullets fly and they hope it will be soon. It would be a sad day for humanity if the bible is true. But all will be well in the end.
Well from a Atheistic perspective god is an imaginary creature but that’s another discussion but if you cannot accept that then let the bullets fly.
It’s not the responsibility of atheists to change their world view in order to get respect from theists and vice versa people should respect each other despite their views.
The Bible cannot be used to support any argument with ...[text shortened]... legiance, one for the monotheists and one for everyone else that doesn’t include a reference to god.
21 Oct 20
@rajk999 saidThere is no "atheist faith".
The USA is God-fearing nation built on principles of Christianity. Americans should not be afraid to promote the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. If atheists are shy about promoting their atheist faith, then the only reasonable conclusion is that they are unsure of their belief.
21 Oct 20
@bigdoggproblem saidFaith is confidence or trust . Atheists trust, or are confident, that there is no God, I know there is a big argument about this but its really a petty one. What is the correct thing to say then?
There is no "atheist faith".