The post that was quoted here has been removedWould the millions who died on the roads think that cars or roads did more harm than good?
How about the millions who died from guns and knives and other weapons? The govt should ban all guns and knives and machetes?
How about the millions that died at the hands of loved ones, what you might call crimes of passion. Would they also think that love or relationships have done more harm that good?
The point is that when you suffer you tend to blame the first identifiable object causing your suffering. Upon reflection and when rationality is possible, you can often see a deeper reason for the problem.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneTo you.
[b]Those who find prayer irrational are missing one thing. It is not you doing the praying. It is a believer doing the praying. To that believer, prayer is a very real and logical thing to do. I believe (heh) that we believers have an impulse to pray and we do not feel comfortable if we delay it or put it off.
What makes you think that "those who f ...[text shortened]... t feel comfortable if [they] delay it or put it off." Such compulsions are similarly irrational.[/b]
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Originally posted by Suziannethe problem it causes for you guys is that you have no way of knowing if a conversation has taken place. the parts of the brain triggered can create the feeling that something has happened without it needing to have actually taken place.
You don't say?
I don't find this especially surprising.
when atheists try to pray the same parts of the brain are not triggered. making it impossible for them to 'feel' god by prayer.
Originally posted by stellspalfieAgain, hardly surprising. If you don't believe, you don't believe.
the problem it causes for you guys is that you have no way of knowing if a conversation has taken place. the parts of the brain triggered can create the feeling that something has happened without it needing to have actually taken place.
when atheists try to pray the same parts of the brain are not triggered. making it impossible for them to 'feel' god by prayer.
Originally posted by SuzianneI fully understand that your position is that for those who believe in prayer, prayer is not irrational. Was there anything in my post that implied otherwise?
To you.
My point was that those who believe in "knocking on wood", "crossing fingers", etc. for luck similarly do not believe that those practices are irrational. The question is whether or not those practices are irrational in and of themselves - not whether or not the practitioner believes them irrational. Do you think that those practices are irrational? If not, why not? If so, what makes prayer any different?
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Originally posted by stellspalfie
did you know that when christians pray they activate the same parts of the brain used when having a conversation.
So ? They may also use the same muscles around the mouth they use when chewing gum.
This doesn't prove that there is no spiritual dimension to humanity.
"God has his reasons...
Man: God, can I ask You a question?
God: Sure
Man: Promise You won't get mad .
God: I promise
Man: Why did You let so much stuff happen to me today?
God: What do you mean?
Man: Well, I woke up late
God: Yes
Man: My car took forever to start
God: Okay
Man: at lunch they made my sandwich wrong & I had to wait
God: Hmm
Man: On the way home, my phone went DEAD, just as I picked up a call
God: All right
Man: And on top of it all, when I got home I just wanted to soak my feet in my new foot massager & relax. BUT it wouldn't work!!! Nothing went right today! Why did You do that?
God: Let me see, the death angel was at your bed this morning & I had to send one of My Angels to battle him for your life. I let you sleep through that
Man (humbled): OH
GOD: I didn't let your car start because there was a drunk driver on your route that would have hit you if you were on the road.
Man: (ashamed)
God: The first person who made your sandwich today was sick & I didn't want you to catch what they have, I knew you couldn't afford to miss work.
Man (embarrassed): Okay
God: Your phone went dead because the person that was calling was going to give false witness about what you said on that call, I didn't even let you talk to them so you would be covered.
Man (softly): I see God
God: Oh and that foot massager, it had a shortage that was going to throw out all of the power in your house tonight. I didn't think you wanted to be in the dark.
Man: I'm Sorry God: Don't be sorry, just learn to Trust Me.. in All things , the Good & the bad.
Man: I will trust You.
God: And don't doubt that My plan for your day is Always Better than your plan.
Man: I won't God. And let me just tell you God, Thank You for Everything today.
God: You're welcome child. It was just another day being your God and looking after My Children."
(forward from a friend in Boston with numerous friends worldwide who were once atheists)
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou sure you want to ask a believer?
I fully understand that your position is that for those who believe in prayer, prayer is not irrational. Was there anything in my post that implied otherwise?
My point was that those who believe in "knocking on wood", "crossing fingers", etc. for luck similarly do not believe that those practices are irrational. The question is whether or not those ...[text shortened]... nk that those practices are irrational? If not, why not? If so, what makes prayer any different?
Because prayer is communication with God. God gets involved through the Holy Spirit.
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhether knocking on wood is rational depends on what one thinks it accomplishes. One purpose could be to magically increase the actual likelihood of something happening as one says or hopes it will. Another is to signal one's uncertainty and hopefulness in a somewhat informal and humorous way, after making a favorable prediction or boast. If the latter is the purpose, then in many situations, depending on the background of those present, it can be quite rational as a means of communicating those feelings. However, there may be people who believe it is a genuine, sometimes effective, rational invocation of magical forces to have fate fulfill one's wishes.
I fully understand that your position is that for those who believe in prayer, prayer is not irrational. Was there anything in my post that implied otherwise?
My point was that those who believe in "knocking on wood", "crossing fingers", etc. for luck similarly do not believe that those practices are irrational. The question is whether or not those ...[text shortened]... nk that those practices are irrational? If not, why not? If so, what makes prayer any different?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThis is great, Bob. Thank you.
"God has his reasons...
Man: God, can I ask You a question?
God: Sure
Man: Promise You won't get mad .
God: I promise
Man: Why did You let so much stuff happen to me today?
God: What do you mean?
Man: Well, I woke up late
God: Yes
Man: My car took forever to start
God: Okay
Man: at lunch they made my sandwich wrong & I had to wa ...[text shortened]... ren."
(forward from a friend in Boston with numerous friends worldwide who were once atheists)