Creation AND Evolution?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Where did you read that, last time I read Genesis it only took God 6 days? For the sake of argument why would it take God 13 billion years, is there some limitation God has?

If we are not talking about creation but some other event/events that are responsible for everything coming forth from nothing, what is the logical explanation for that?

Limitation? Why did it take 6 days? Is there some limitation God has?

How many times do I have to say this?

One of the most important facets of Christianity is free will. If God had just "poofed" the universe into existence, wouldn't this have been obvious? Obvious that the universe had a Creator, making the Hand of God obvious to all. This eliminates man's free will. Man MUST be free to choose or not choose God, so that he is without excuse at the final rendering. God created all the rules of physics that the universe runs on. The same physics that enables the universe to run today. His method of creation was to set these laws of physics into motion, with minor tweaks along the way to ensure that his final product was realized. Yes, this means that it takes a long time. A really long time. I ask you again, what is time to God? Do YOU think he cannot wait for his plans to come to fruition?

If God made it clear to ancient man (by telling Moses, who wrote the Torah) exactly how long it took, do you think ancient man would believe it? Did ancient man even know what a billion years meant? 6 days was a time period ancient man was already familiar with, being a normal work week. It would make sense to them that God spent a week making everything that exists. And, as a bonus, this enabled God to tell man to keep the Sabbath holy as a rest day, because God himself rested after 6 days of toil.

Today, we know that it took longer than 6 days. We're capable of understanding God's use of metaphor here. Do you think that just because I understand that it took longer than six days, that I no longer believe that the universe was created by God? No. It just means that I don't think he needed to pull it out of a hat, like a rabbit in a magic trick. Coincidentally, the only people in the world who still think that Creation took six 24-hour days, no more, no less, are the same people who actually think that Donald Trump is good for America.

Originally posted by @suzianne
Limitation? Why did it take 6 days? Is there some limitation God has?

How many times do I have to say this?

One of the most important facets of Christianity is free will. If God had just "poofed" the universe into existence, wouldn't this have been obvious? Obvious that the universe had a Creator, making the Hand of God obvious to all. This elim ...[text shortened]... no more, no less, are the same people who actually think that Donald Trump is good for America.

Leave Trump out of this!

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
1. It's not.

2. What "starting value"?

3. Wouldn't those unspecified "contaminations" leave some kind of empirical signature?

1. It's not.

Measurements of the expansion rate of the universe can be used to calculate its approximate age by extrapolating backwards in time. Since you say it is not you clearly have no idea what you are talking about so there is no point in continuing this discussion with you. Cheerio.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
[b]1. It's not.

Measurements of the expansion rate of the universe can be used to calculate its approximate age by extrapolating backwards in time. Since you say it is not you clearly have no idea what you are talking about so there is no point in continuing this discussion with you. Cheerio.[/b]

The accelerating expansion of the universe is the observation that the universe appears to be expanding at an increasing rate,[1][2][3] so that the velocity at which a distant galaxy is receding from the observer is continuously increasing with time.[4]

The accelerated expansion was discovered in 1998, by two independent projects, the Supernova Cosmology Project and the High-Z Supernova Search Team, which both used distant type Ia supernovae to measure the acceleration.[5][6][7] The idea was that these type 1a supernovae all have almost the same intrinsic brightness (a standard candle). Since objects that are further away appear dimmer, we can use the observed brightness of these supernovae to measure the distance to them. The distance can then be compared to the supernovae's cosmological redshift, which measures how fast the supernovae are receding from us.[8] The unexpected result was that the universe seems to be expanding at an accelerating rate. Cosmologists at the time expected that the expansion would be decelerating due to the gravitational attraction of the matter in the universe. Three members of these two groups have subsequently been awarded Nobel Prizes for their discovery.[9] Confirmatory evidence has been found in baryon acoustic oscillations, and in analyses of the clustering of galaxies.

Woops. Looks like you don't know what you're talking about. Try ameliorating that issue by actually reading about the topic you are attempting to comment on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_expansion_of_the_universe

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
[quote]The accelerating expansion of the universe is the observation that the universe appears to be expanding at an increasing rate,[1][2][3] so that the velocity at which a distant galaxy is receding from the observer is continuously increasing with time.[4]

The accelerated expansion was discovered in 1998, by two independent projects, the Superno ...[text shortened]... attempting to comment on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_expansion_of_the_universe

That doesn't contradict what I’ve been saying all along.

Measurements of the expansion rate of the universe can be used to calculate its approximate age by extrapolating backwards in time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe

Originally posted by @dj2becker
That doesn't contradict what I’ve been saying all along.

Measurements of the expansion rate of the universe can be used to calculate its approximate age by extrapolating backwards in time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe

The extrapolation does not assume a constant rate of expansion over time, as you erroneously claimed.

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
The extrapolation does not assume a constant rate of expansion over time, as you erroneously claimed.

I said ‘current rate’ not ‘constant rate’. Maybe you should put on your reading glasses.

Kindly point out where I supposedly said the current rate is constant.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Creation and evolution are apples and oranges one is a event the other a process.

Another misread from you sir. 😉

I made no attempt to conflate creation and evolution.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I said ‘current rate’ not ‘constant rate’. Maybe you should put on your reading glasses.

Kindly point out where I supposedly said the current rate is constant.

Here:

1.the current rate is extrapolated into the past

It's on the previous page.

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
Here:

1.the current rate is extrapolated into the past

It's on the previous page.

current

adjective
1.
belonging to the present time; happening or being used or done now.


constant

adjective
1.
occurring continuously over a period of time.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
current

adjective
1.
belonging to the present time; happening or being used or done now.


constant

adjective
1.
occurring continuously over a period of time.

The current rate isn't extrapolated into the past.

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
The current rate isn't extrapolated into the past.

Seems you are flummoxed by the notion that the current rate is a changing one and it is extrapolated into the past.

Why put words in my mouth and say I said ‘constant’ when I never did?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Another misread from you sir. 😉

I made no attempt to conflate creation and evolution.

Another misread...first was?

Originally posted by @suzianne
Limitation? Why did it take 6 days? Is there some limitation God has?

How many times do I have to say this?

One of the most important facets of Christianity is free will. If God had just "poofed" the universe into existence, wouldn't this have been obvious? Obvious that the universe had a Creator, making the Hand of God obvious to all. This elim ...[text shortened]... no more, no less, are the same people who actually think that Donald Trump is good for America.

One of the most important facets of Christianity is free will, even more important than that
is our ability to trust God. The point of much of our faith is trusting God to be who God is
in our lives, our provider, our shield, our great reward. When we lost confidence in the
Lord what is that but a denial of God being the King of the Universe and our Lord? If we
don't trust He has our back, but instead is some how out to get us, is that faith under
attack? So is God able to do the things scripture says, as scripture says it? If not than
if it cannot be trusted in some places, in all places it cannot be trusted.

Granted the bemoaning by some that some parts are not to be taken literally actually has
some validity to them, but context typically shows where and what is going on. With the
creation story, the context leads to the first family, then by name goes through all
generations from Adam to Jesus Christ. What other religious book in the whole of the
world does this? In addition to that we see other races alive to day and we get their
beginnings in scripture too, not just the Hebrew people either, what other religious
book does that?

You think the laws of physics in motion disproves anything in scripture? Seriously the
only thing you are doing is putting one thing that must be accepted on faith and
replacing it with another. Man didn't need to know what a billion years was, he did know
what a day was, and that was all that God required to share what it was He did, in the
time it required for Him to do it.

Don't forget, generation after generation passed info along as well, verbal history was
in play too, these things were not completely unknown, if you want to believe it was
a metaphor than was the birth of Jesus also a metaphor since His history is also wrapped
up in the same document that had the creation story in it also?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Seems you are flummoxed by the notion that the current rate is a changing one and it is extrapolated into the past.

Why put words in my mouth and say I said ‘constant’ when I never did?

Your moving of the goal posts is both desperate and dishonest.