Spirituality
25 Jul 18
26 Jul 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyI have one question for you. (Well, more than that, but they're all the same type.)
I had to say "basic" because Evolution Theory is fine and can work with the bible, except for the part about mankind evolving directly--and without any outside interference--from apes.
How do you think the typical "man on the street" of 3500 years ago would have reacted to the news that we were descended from apes?
How do you think the typical "man on the street" of 3500 years ago would have reacted to the news that the universe is 13.77 billion years old?
How do you think the typical "man on the street" of 3500 years ago would have reacted to the news that most disease is caused by tiny, invisible one-celled life-forms?
How do you think the typical "man on the street" of 3500 years ago would have reacted to the news that one day, we would be able to fly to the moon and walk around on it?
Yes, he would say we were insane. That is why this stuff isn't in the Bible.
Don't make the same mistake.
26 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayBut KJ, we have the evidence. They are NOT "matters of faith".
I realize that people have theories about ages, ansestors, causes and so on. Popular beliefs about most of them are still matters of faith since they are all about the distant past. They therefore are beyond real validation, the truthfulness of these theories only reside in our explanations, our tests might give us the proper mathematical results we seek, ...[text shortened]... before us. So on faith it is expected and through peer presure it taught us as undeniable truth.
Come on, man. Step boldly into the age of reason. Find a way to reconcile what we believe and what we know. They can (and DO) co-exist.
Knowledge does not belittle faith. Ignorance does. And willful ignorance just turns it into a joke, a bad joke. We do NOT have to be ignorant to follow Christ. Following him only because we're ignorant doesn't do him or us any favors. Knowing the truth and still following him is what honors him. The Amish are wrong. We should not eschew living in the modern world in order to follow Christ. We must follow Christ even though we live in the modern world. This is the challenge before us. God is still "I AM."
26 Jul 18
Originally posted by @suzianneThe problem is when you think you know when all you have are assumptions. True believers are a screwed up dangerous bunch.
But KJ, we have the evidence. They are NOT "matters of faith".
Come on, man. Step boldly into the age of reason. Find a way to reconcile what we believe and what we know. They can (and DO) co-exist.
Knowledge does not belittle faith. Ignorance does. And willful ignorance just turns it into a joke, a bad joke. We do NOT have to be ignora ...[text shortened]... though[/i] we live in the modern world. This is the challenge before us. God is still "I AM."
26 Jul 18
Originally posted by @suzianneWe have evidence that doesn’t mean that we are rightly identifying what we are seeing! You want to tell me that what you claim about the distant past is beyond reproach, our interpretations are flawless, our conjecture without error? There is a difference between fact and theories, theories change to suit new information while facts are validated and even they can be questioned because we might misinterpret something casting doubt on the truth. I would not be so quick to claim science has answered anything since it is supposed to be a self correcting methodology and that because we are flawed so it has to be.
But KJ, we have the evidence. They are NOT "matters of faith".
Come on, man. Step boldly into the age of reason. Find a way to reconcile what we believe and what we know. They can (and DO) co-exist.
Knowledge does not belittle faith. Ignorance does. And willful ignorance just turns it into a joke, a bad joke. We do NOT have to be ignora ...[text shortened]... though[/i] we live in the modern world. This is the challenge before us. God is still "I AM."
27 Jul 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @suzianneI guess your point is, I shouldn't think it impossible that we descended directly from apes and without outside influence. And thanks, but I don't have that issue. So. Are you enjoying the 115 deg. temps by the way? It's been over 100 here for weeks but I guess I'm singing to the choir.
I have one question for you. (Well, more than that, but they're all the same type.)
How do you think the typical "man on the street" of 3500 years ago would have reacted to the news that we were descended from apes?
How do you think the typical "man on the street" of 3500 years ago would have reacted to the news that the universe is 13.77 [i]billion ...[text shortened]... say we were insane. That is why this stuff isn't in the Bible.
Don't make the same mistake.
27 Jul 18
Originally posted by @suzianneI like what you said, although it shouldn't be forgotten that Christ and Christians are "not of this World." But I still think your ideal works. We just need to be cognizant that our ultimate priority involves things beyond this World.
But KJ, we have the evidence. They are NOT "matters of faith".
Come on, man. Step boldly into the age of reason. Find a way to reconcile what we believe and what we know. They can (and DO) co-exist.
Knowledge does not belittle faith. Ignorance does. And willful ignorance just turns it into a joke, a bad joke. We do NOT have to be ignora ...[text shortened]... though[/i] we live in the modern world. This is the challenge before us. God is still "I AM."
27 Jul 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyTrue, but I'm saying that we don't have to be afraid of what we know. We should be afraid of what we don't know. All things being equal, it's always better to know. I've said more than once in this forum that knowledge and faith are two sides of the same coin. It's better to have both than to have neither.
I like what you said, although it shouldn't be forgotten that Christ and Christians are "not of this World." But I still think your ideal works. We just need to be cognizant that our ultimate priority involves things beyond this World.
27 Jul 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolsey115 sucks. I hate sweating.
I guess your point is, I shouldn't think it impossible that we descended directly from apes and without outside influence. And thanks, but I don't have that issue. So. Are you enjoying the 115 deg. temps by the way? It's been over 100 here for weeks but I guess I'm singing to the choir.
27 Jul 18
Originally posted by @suzianneDoes it matter what year someone tells the truth about an event? What does it matter if
That's just not good enough.
What is written regarding the creation of the universe in Genesis was written about 3500 years ago by Moses. Almost all of our current understanding of how the universe was created has come about in the last 100 years.
What you are experiencing here is the conflict between writing the truth for man of 3500 years ago and ...[text shortened]... tant, but the Why. It's the Bible, not a science textbook. It doesn't have to stay up to date.
the truth was spoken 3500 years ago, truth doesn't change only opinions. Since Moses
had a relationship with God that was quite different than most people when God shares
with Moses, I'll take that over what someone in a lab thinks something means when he
does the math.
27 Jul 18
Originally posted by @suzianneI do believe truth, it is truth can and does co-exist in science and matters of faith, but that
But KJ, we have the evidence. They are NOT "matters of faith".
Come on, man. Step boldly into the age of reason. Find a way to reconcile what we believe and what we know. They can (and DO) co-exist.
Knowledge does not belittle faith. Ignorance does. And willful ignorance just turns it into a joke, a bad joke. We do NOT have to be ignora ...[text shortened]... though[/i] we live in the modern world. This is the challenge before us. God is still "I AM."
doesn't mean everything people believe in both are true. The sorting out of facts and
errors is something we have to do. I accept scripture as a reliable source of truth, but I do
not accepts man's conclusions with the same faith. Not because I think they are trying to
lie, even though some do, we are just flawed no matter how careful we are. As soon as
we start building a system to understand if we add anything wrong into our system like
an assumption that isn't true the end result will be in error. I'm not interested in just
finding a way to co-exist, it is truth or nothing in either world. I'm perfectly fine in saying
that the universe is believed to be billions of years old, that is true, it isn't a proven fact.
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Originally posted by @fmfWhat convincing answers has atheism offered to the questions of how the universe was formed and how humanity came about?
To me, Christianity - in its scripture - has not offered convincing answers to the questions of how the universe was formed and how humanity came about! To me, at best, it may have offered an allegory.
So ~ [b]to all those YEC ideologues out there [although, I'm not sure how many there are in this community now that RJHinds and josephw are no longer pos ...[text shortened]... uisitive humans to simply settle for explanations that you just so happened to have settled for?[/b]
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Originally posted by @dj2beckerThe universe has always existed, in one form or another, time merely being a mortal construct.
What convincing answers has atheism offered to the questions of how the universe was formed and how humanity came about?
And humanity came about as a result of evolution. Didn't you know?
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Originally posted by @suzianneDo you think that scientists know the exact age of the universe for sure without a shadow of a doubt? Are you aware of all the unprovable presuppositions that have to be made?
I have one question for you. (Well, more than that, but they're all the same type.)
How do you think the typical "man on the street" of 3500 years ago would have reacted to the news that we were descended from apes?
How do you think the typical "man on the street" of 3500 years ago would have reacted to the news that the universe is 13.77 [i]billion ...[text shortened]... say we were insane. That is why this stuff isn't in the Bible.
Don't make the same mistake.