21 Oct 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziMethinks we cannot bring people back from the dead for the time being; the fact that in older historical periods a supposedly dead person could actually be alive although it was considered dead, is in my opinion irrelevant.
Death is a phenomenon related to the total irreversible failure of some or of all vital organs and systems of the body that are necessary in order to keep it functional and alive.
yes, and in the middle ages it was thought that lack of blood flow equals "irreversible" failure. who knows where the irreversible boundary will be in the future.
the fact ...[text shortened]... e religion that enriches your soul, not the hatemongering shackles some people seem to have.
Also, in the furture the boundary of the irreversibility of death will be perhaps wider than today, but again a dead person would not be resurrected because a wider boundary means simply that the person was not dead in firstplace although it was considered dead.
On the other hand, the point you try to make debunks the cornerstone of the Christian religion, according to which Jesus was de facto dead and later was de facto resurrected. I think you are forced either to accept blindly the miracle of the ressurection per se, or to accept that the ressurection of Jesus was a metaphor and that, therefore, he was not in fact resurrected.
Finally, I am fully convinced I can prove the existence of love without the slightest doubt. And, in our case, it is not exactly like religion because I was never forced to have faith that Maria loves me. We both are just illuminated by each other thanks to our bond -we are the bond and the bond is strong.
I am delighted to see you living your religion so generously!
May You Always Be Happy
😵
21 Oct 10
Originally posted by menace71I'm not claiming that Jesus wasn't resurrected (although I can't say I believe he was), I just noticed that you had made some unwarranted assumptions regarding the biblical account.
Well there was some kind of guard there. Seems kinda of stupid if it were a Jewish Guard. I think it comes down to either you believe the account or you don't. Then you still have to deal with sightings of Jesus after the resurrection. Liberal theologians will try to dismiss the resurrection but that is there choice.
Manny
Manny
21 Oct 10
verry cute even God has a funny bone but lets face it the truth is that jesus died was put e in a cave and the third day he rose and accended into the hevan he sits in power on the right hand of the father and he will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.
21 Oct 10
Originally posted by black beetle>>>You see, if I would accept a miracle like the resurrection as a factual event, I would have no basis on which I would reject any other miracle -but this is what we are doing when we have to evaluate the historicity of a supposed event/ fact. This is the reason why I consider the reports mythical.<<<
The Roman guards took an order from their commander alone, so they would anyway report everything regarding their mission directly to him and not to the Jews.
I don’t accept the report of the resurrection as an historical event/ fact because I have historical objections and because, in addition, as a violation of a natural law the resurrection cannot ...[text shortened]... ction (either as a metaphor or as an event/ fact) on the basis of his religious faith alone
😵
Mary B. Eddy bringing one back from the dead..
Mary Baker Eddie was called to visit Mr. Clark in Lynn, who had been confined to his bed six months with hip-disease, caused by a fall upon a wooden spike when quite a boy. On entering the house she met his physician, who said that the patient was dying. The physician had just probed the ulcer on the hip, and said the bone was carious for several inches. He even showed her the probe, which had on it the evidence of this condition of the bone. The doctor went out. Mr. Clark lay with his eyes fixed and sightless. The dew of death was on his brow.
She went to his bedside. In a few moments his face changed; its death-pallor gave place to a natural hue. The eyelids closed gently and the breathing became natural; he was asleep. In about ten minutes he opened his eyes and said: "I feel like a new man. My suffering is all gone." It was between three and four o'clock in the afternoon when this took place. She told him to rise, dress himself, and take supper with his family. He did so. The next day she saw him in the yard. Since then she had not seen him, but was informed that he went to work in two weeks. The discharge from the sore stopped, and the sore was healed. The diseased condition had continued there ever since the injury was received in boyhood.
Since his recovery she was informed that his physician claims to have cured him, and that his mother has been threatened with incarceration in an insane asylum for saying: "It was none other than God and that woman who healed him." Mary could not attest the truth of that report, but what she saw and did for that man, and what his physician said of the case, occurred just as she has narrated.
It has been demonstrated to Mary Baker Eddy that Life is God.
Now, if this lady had brought one back from being on his death bed, that the Dr.s had given up hope, 100 years ago, which can be found if researched, and she to claim that God is her Life, do you not find that Christ most assuredly felt just the same, and knew that nothing could take his life away, that if he gave up the ghost, he could return, for what can not God do?
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by tacoandlettuceWhen you evaluate -like Eddy- that "evil", "suffering" and "death" amongst else are a part of an illusory material world that is not "created" by your so called "god", methinks you are merely deep in dualism. Leaving aside the fact that Eddy brought back from the dead nobody, in the future you could probably find yourself enjoying the view at Halcyon Lake in Mount Auburn cemetery, nearby that great limestone temple where Eddy lies since 1910. Since you believe that death (and, therefore, life) is just an unreal illusion, you could wait there until you see Eddy greeting you in person😵
"death" SHALL die! period
The belief that it is factual, this miserable concept, and man will KNOW LIFE!
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by pink floyd123How do you know that this is the "truth"?
verry cute even God has a funny bone but lets face it the truth is that jesus died was put e in a cave and the third day he rose and accended into the hevan he sits in power on the right hand of the father and he will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.
😵
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by pink floyd123😴
verry cute even God has a funny bone but lets face it the truth is that jesus died was put e in a cave and the third day he rose and accended into the hevan he sits in power on the right hand of the father and he will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by black beetlewait why do you think i was forced to have faith in jesus and god? it is quite arrogant of atheists to believe religious people are mindless drones that don't know better. that a religious upbringing doomed them to a life of ignorance and slavery.
Methinks we cannot bring people back from the dead for the time being; the fact that in older historical periods a supposedly dead person could actually be alive although it was considered dead, is in my opinion irrelevant.
Also, in the furture the boundary of the irreversibility of death will be perhaps wider than today, but again a dead person would ...[text shortened]... .
I am delighted to see you living your religion so generously!
May You Always Be Happy
😵
the matter is more complex than that you know.
"Finally, I am fully convinced I can prove the existence of love without the slightest doubt."
how? do you not realize you sound exactly like any fundamentalist out there? only you don't call yourself a fundamentalist you call yourself a romantic and in love 😀 how can you prove she is in love with you? you can't even prove you are in love with her. you know you are, because you know how you feel. how do you know how she feels? do you read her thoughts? do you measure her love with a device? and even if such a device would be invented, how can you be sure it works since people register love each in their own way. if every scientist would behave like you, we wouldn't have thermometers saying it's exactly 31.453 degrees C, we would only say it's hot or it's cold. and even then, where is the boundary? do we experience hot and cold the same way? furthermore it would even be easier to say that as even subjective, we would in fact share the feeling of winter. your love for your wife and her love for you are both individual and could never be shared.
i want it to be clear: i see you are in love. i believe that you are in love. and i believe that your wife loves you back. but if you were to ask me right now to bet my life on the fact that your life loves you and will forever love you no matter what, i will say hell no.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziEdit: "wait why do you think i was forced to have faith in jesus and god?"
wait why do you think i was forced to have faith in jesus and god? it is quite arrogant of atheists to believe religious people are mindless drones that don't know better. that a religious upbringing doomed them to a life of ignorance and slavery.
the matter is more complex than that you know.
"Finally, I am fully convinced I can prove the existence of ...[text shortened]... that your life loves you and will forever love you no matter what, i will say hell no.
I don't mean that somebody else forced you; I mean that you are forced by your free will to beleive blindly in the existence of god because you anyway cannot prove that god is existent.
Edit: "how? do you not realize you sound exactly like any fundamentalist out there?"
I see, I see!
I can prove it by means of her behaviour and her actions alone, and I am talking about events and facts that there would be non-existent if the agent of love was not existent. We do respect each other, we eliminate constantly our egoism in order to please each other in full, we both changed in full our way of living in order to became able to live together.
The device I am using in order to feel love is my mind. There is no such a thing as "low love" and "high love". Love as I mean it, exists solely when you are ready to die herenow for the one you love. In our case, love is existent;
edit: "but if you were to ask me right now to bet my life on the fact that your life loves you and will forever love you no matter what, i will say hell no."
I would also say "no" if somebody else was to ask me right now to bet my life on the fact that his wife loves him and will forever love him no matter what; however I would say "Sure thing" if you ask me right now to bet my life on the fact that my wife loves me and will forever love me no matter what
😵
22 Oct 10
1 edit
Originally posted by black beetleyes, but if you were to tell me to bet my life that sun's gravity affects earth i will say yes
Edit: "wait why do you think i was forced to have faith in jesus and god?"
I don't mean that somebody else forced you; I mean that you are forced by your free will to beleive blindly in the existence of god because you anyway cannot prove that god is existent.
Edit: "how? do you not realize you sound exactly like any fundamentalist out there?" fe on the fact that my wife loves me and will forever love me no matter what
😵
this is the difference between a subjective notion and a proven fact. gravity is proven. love cannot.
edit: suppose the other man's wife performed the same acts of love as your wife did. wouldn't it be correct to assume then that the same tools, conditions you use to asses your wife's love, he used them too? would it be then feasible to bet your life on the love the other man's wife holds for her husband? wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume that you love your wife so much you would consider the height of dishonor to suspect her of treachery? but because you do not love the other man's wife you can think rationally and see there is a possibility she is faking it?
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziOnce the bond of love is created strong, love is well proven to the agents that established the bond😵
yes, but if you were to tell me to bet my life that sun's gravity affects earth i will say yes
this is the difference between a subjective notion and a proven fact. gravity is proven. love cannot.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziEdit: "suppose the other man's wife performed the same acts of love as your wife did. wouldn't it be correct to assume then that the same tools, conditions you use to asses your wife's love, he used them too? would it be then feasible to bet your life on the love the other man's wife holds for her husband? wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume that you love your wife so much you would consider the height of dishonor to suspect her of treachery? but because you do not love the other man's wife you can think rationally and see there is a possibility she is faking it?"
yes, but if you were to tell me to bet my life that sun's gravity affects earth i will say yes
this is the difference between a subjective notion and a proven fact. gravity is proven. love cannot.
edit: suppose the other man's wife performed the same acts of love as your wife did. wouldn't it be correct to assume then that the same tools, conditions you ...[text shortened]... ther man's wife you can think rationally and see there is a possibility she is faking it?
Methinks it would be false to assume that we know whether two people are really in love because the only persons that can declare such a thing are solely the persons in love -and, again, there is no way for the ones that are outside the bond of love to know for sure.
But I think it is not false for an individual to assume that between the one s/he loves and her/ himself the bond of love is existent or non-existent; if the traces of love are existent, there is indeed love -but this condition is known solely to the agents of the bond
😵
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by black beetleSo, you evidently did not look up the history to the fact that she had brought him back from the death bed, as it laid upon his brow, the hew of death.
When you evaluate -like Eddy- that "evil", "suffering" and "death" amongst else are a part of an illusory material world that is not "created" by your so called "god", methinks you are merely deep in dualism. Leaving aside the fact that Eddy brought back from the dead nobody, in the future you could probably find yourself enjoying the view at Halcyon La ...[text shortened]... t an unreal illusion, you could wait there until you see Eddy greeting you in person😵
When Mary "passed" at age 89 they took her organs out to donate for whomever and found them to be as if she were -under- 20!
Death -shall- die, for this corruptible when he puts on incorruption GONNA swallow it up! Therefore Life recognized IS Eternity!