Divorced after 25 happy years

@fmf said
We can but speculate about supernatural things - something unaffected by how many times you refer to your own opinions as "absolute truth".

My opinion is just an opinion; absolutes don't change; that is why they are absolutes, and when you have none to stand on, you have nothing that cannot crumble below your feet. It is a matter of logic; truth will not contradict itself, so some statements that people use contradict themselves, so what they are saying is worthless as far as an argument is concerned.

If you cannot even give a possible explanation with only natural mechanisms to start and maintain the things in this universe that only leaves something else, do you think that is not true, or do you think/hope there is something we don't know about yet because that is blind faith?

@kellyjay said
My opinion is just an opinion; absolutes don't change; that is why they are absolutes, and when you have none to stand on, you have nothing that cannot crumble below your feet.

All you have are subjective opinions about what "absolute truths" are in connection with the things we are talking about. If, psychologically speaking, you need to tell yourself that your speculations and aspirations about supernatural things are "absolute truths", otherwise "you would have nothing that cannot crumble below your feet", then so be it.

@kellyjay said
If you cannot even give a possible explanation with only natural mechanisms to start and maintain the things in this universe that only leaves something else, do you think that is not true, or do you think/hope there is something we don't know about yet because that is blind faith?

Neither of us knows what the origin of the universe and the origin of human consciousness are. Nobody does. You can make whatever assertions you want about these things. But you cannot, linguistically and philosophically speaking, refer to the things that you assert as "absolute" or "objective" truths.

@kellyjay said
Seventeen pages of why, and you want me to repeat myself; I'm not being evasive. You are being lazy.

Don’t be evasive, be concise, be unequivocal, be brave and face questions head on.

Why do you presume that FMF was NOT saved at the the time of his faith?

@fmf said
All you have are subjective opinions about what "absolute truths" are in connection with the things we are talking about. If, psychologically speaking, you need to tell yourself that your speculations and aspirations about supernatural things are "absolute truths", otherwise "you would have nothing that cannot crumble below your feet", then so be it.

You have to keep the conversation focused only on what is going on between your ears and mine. As soon as you admit something more is needed and required to create and maintain the universe and life, it is no longer a matter of subjectiveness.

The very fact that your religious beliefs are now and as you claim always was a matter of subjectiveness on your part is an admission it was never a real thing; it was always you, and only you in how you thought it should be if true. Something clued you in on the reality of what you thought wasn't real, so instead, finding the real thing you deny it all. So what you are left with without choice is projecting that upon everyone else as if you know, objectively, not subjectively, that everyone else's religious beliefs are just like yours were; you have made this claim; none is basing theirs on anything real in reality, all of them were/are all just like you too.

I think we have circled here before; unless you want to continue the discussion, I think we will repeat ourselves; we can part agreeing to disagree.

@divegeester said
Don’t be evasive, be concise, be unequivocal, be brave and face questions head on.

Why do you presume that FMF was NOT saved at the the time of his faith?

Find a hobby to busy yourself.

@kellyjay said
Find a hobby to busy yourself.

This is it!

On what basis do you assume FMF was NEVER saved?

Just answer the question and stop being evasive.

@divegeester said
This is it!

On what basis do you assume FMF was NEVER saved?

Just answer the question and stop being evasive.

It isn't easy not to treat you as you do me, but if you want to know the answer to that question, I suggest you start at the top of this page and read it. Again, if I wanted to talk about FMF, I'm not going to run it through you; that would not be respectful; in my opinion, if you want to talk about others to others, that is all you and me when I screw up.

@kellyjay said
It isn't easy not to treat you as you do me, but if you want to know the answer to that question, I suggest you start at the top of this page and read it. Again, if I wanted to talk about FMF, I'm not going to run it through you; that would not be respectful; in my opinion, if you want to talk about others to others, that is all you and me when I screw up.

I have read it, it’s just more of your conjecture.

Come on KellyJay you are always haranguing me about “sticking to scripture”, so you show me from scripture as related to what you KNOW about FMF, what basis you have for determining that he was NEVER saved in the first place?

@divegeester said
I have read it, it’s just more of your conjecture.

Come on KellyJay you are always haranguing me about “sticking to scripture”, so you show me from scripture as related to what you KNOW about FMF, what basis you have for determining that he was NEVER saved in the first place?

Really what makes someone a Christian? Can you claim to be one and not be? If all you have is your opinion, you are in the same boat but with a different confession. When it is all between your ears it is just your opinion, is there is a way to tell that has nothing to do with my opinion where might we find that, do we just ask you two, or go to the scripture?

@kellyjay said
Really what makes someone a Christian? Can you claim to be one and not be?

I would hazard a guess that there are literally hundreds of millions of "sociological Christians" around the world who claim to be Christians but don't actually hold Christian beliefs.

@fmf said
I would hazard a guess that there are literally hundreds of millions of "sociological Christians" around the world who claim to be Christians but don't actually hold Christian beliefs.

Is that important and what is a Christian belief? If it is only a intellectual self-identification why would that matter?

@kellyjay said
Is that important and what is a Christian belief?

It's exactly the same as when I explained it to you the last time [a couple of weeks ago], and the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that, and so on.

@kellyjay said
The very fact that your religious beliefs are now and as you claim always was a matter of subjectiveness on your part is an admission it was never a real thing; it was always you, and only you in how you thought it should be if true.

It was as real to me back then as it is real to you now.

@kellyjay said
Really what makes someone a Christian? Can you claim to be one and not be? If all you have is your opinion, you are in the same boat but with a different confession. When it is all between your ears it is just your opinion, is there is a way to tell that has nothing to do with my opinion where might we find that, do we just ask you two, or go to the scripture?

Yes yes but answer my question … if you can

On what basis can you judge FMF’s initial salvation many years ago? What gives you that right?

How do you KNOW that he wasn’t saved and has, as you put it, “fallen away”?