Divorced after 25 happy years

@fmf said
I don't believe it is "the Lord" that changes you, KellyJay.

I think what changes you is the inspiration and encouragement and perspective and motivation and psychological strength that your belief in "the Lord" [i.e. your faith] gives you.

I am not - I repeat NOT - denying that your faith changes you; it changed me too.

Well, at least we now agree that what you had was just all of you, and you deny the Lord in me.

@kellyjay said
Well, at least we now agree that what you had was just all of you, and you deny the Lord in me.

How do you know that FMF wasn’t “once saved always saved”, and has just fallen away?

@divegeester said
Why not just say, why go all furtive and evasive again?

In your opinion, was FMF’s experience:

- saved but lost his salvation?
- saved and still saved, despite his apostasy?
- never saved at all?

You are not following the conversation, and as a Christian, you believe God does not enter the Christian's life just like FMF?

@kellyjay said
You are not following the conversation, and as a Christian, you believe God does not enter the Christian's life just like FMF?

Why not just answer my question?

Then I’ll answer yours.

@divegeester said
How do you know that FMF wasn’t “once saved always saved”, and has just fallen away?

In his own words, all he has ever had was a mental acceptance of the Lord; we are not saved unless the Lord is in us doing His sanctification work in our lives. Is the Lord in you? Anyone who is just believing in His name without abiding in Christ is playing religion and is no different from anyone who isn't; typically, their actions do not differentiate one from another; their attitudes, their actions, they are like everyone outside of the fellowship with God accept they call themselves Christians.

A few passages:

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Romans 8:8
Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

2 Corinthians 4:11
For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

Colossians 2:23
These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

Galatians 5:18-20
English Standard Version
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,

@kellyjay said
Well, at least we now agree that what you had was just all of you, and you deny the Lord in me.

I recognize your faith and what you believe to be reality. Interestingly, it seems desperately important to you to deny that I had faith for over 25 years of my life. Not that it matters, of course.

@divegeester said
Why not just answer my question?

Then I’ll answer yours.

I doubt your sincerity.

@kellyjay said
In his own words, all he has ever had was a mental acceptance of the Lord,

This is all your faith amounts to, as well, KellyJay, no matter how dramatically the professing of - and being utterly convinced of - that faith changes you.

@fmf said
I recognize your faith and what you believe to be reality. Interestingly, it seems desperately important to you to deny that I had faith for over 25 years of my life. Not that it matters, of course.

I am just taking you at your word, you can call what you had Christianity, but Christianity requires Christ in us, and you deny that and still do. Nothing about that in you has ever changed, so how can you lose something you never had. I take you back to the math problem; you thought something was right; you saw in your mind the correct answer, so did you lose anything? No, it was just a thought, nothing more. Christ is more, and you deny Him now, and you claim it was never real, only something you "believed at the time." So by your own words, Christ was never in your to lose.

@kellyjay said
In his own words, all he has ever had was a mental acceptance of the Lord; we are not saved unless the Lord is in us doing His sanctification work in our lives. Is the Lord in you? Anyone who is just believing in His name without abiding in Christ is playing religion and is no different from anyone who isn't; typically, their actions do not differentiate one from another; th ...[text shortened]... lity, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,

I know what the bible generally teaches and I know what FMF thinks on this matter.

What I’m asking you, you personally KellyJay, is how do you know that FMF isn’t “once saved always saved” and has drifted away, backsliden…whatever phrase you wish to use?

@fmf said
This is all your faith amounts to, as well, KellyJay, no matter how dramatically the professing of - and being utterly convinced of - that faith changes you.

Is it something real or not? No, not even close; faith doesn't make a reality; it simply has us taking on what we believe the truth to be. We try to judge rightly, making sense of it all! My faith could be huge but worthless if it is about a lie or error. People drove airplanes into buildings due to faith based on a lie; those who closely followed Christ died being killed rather than denying Him, except one, because of what they saw and knew about Him. If what they professed was a lie, why die over it? People make all kinds of wise and foolish actions based on faith; if they believe in something they should, it goes well. If not, it could be life-ending. Dramatic professions are meaningless if what is being professed is not true; the truth is the only thing that matters with faith, not how spectacular it is or moving a crowd gets; you can a crowd all worked get that at a motivational seminar or a political rally.

@kellyjay said
I am just taking you at your word, you can call what you had Christianity, but Christianity requires Christ in us, and you deny that and still do.

Because of my faith, I believed I had "Christ in" me, just as, because of your faith, you believe you have "Christ in" you. I do NOT deny that you believe you have "Christ in" you. And I do NOT deny I believed I had "Christ in" me back then.

@kellyjay said
Is it something real or not? No, not even close; faith doesn't make a reality; it simply has us taking on what we believe the truth to be.

Exactly.

With your faith, you are simply taking about what you believe the truth to be.

@kellyjay said
My faith could be huge but worthless if it is about a lie or error. People drove airplanes into buildings due to faith based on a lie; those who closely followed Christ died being killed rather than denying Him, except one, because of what they saw and knew about Him. If what they professed was a lie, why die over it? People make all kinds of wise and foolish actions based o ...[text shortened]... ng a crowd gets; you can a crowd all worked get that at a motivational seminar or a political rally.

Well, none of this is evidence that anything supernatural is going on. But you have your faith that it is.

@kellyjay said
People drove airplanes into buildings due to faith based on a lie.

What "lie" was that, then?