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@divegeester said<<Salvation is free and for everyone. It refers to not being extinct after death.>>
The trinity (capitalised or otherwise) (non biblical made up hokum anyway)
Hell and lakes of fire, brimstone, sulphur or any other apocalyptic occurrences
Being cast into said lakes
Burning alive in said lakes
Burning alive in said lakes for eternity
Miracles (no matter how lovely or helpful e.g. water into wine)
Floods and other mass extinction events
Genealogie ...[text shortened]... st at Calvary. In terms of “salvation” everything else is, relatively speaking, theological scenery.
How do you square this statement with…
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
(John 3:16)
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
(Romans 10:9)
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(John 6:40)
“And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
(Acts 16:30-31)
“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
(John 8:24)
“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
(John 11:25)
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
(John 3:3-6)
Jesus Christ, the Apostle John and the Apostle Paul are all saying the same thing in those verses.
02 Feb 22
@josephw saidI’m asserting that those doctrines are NOT required for salvation.
When the assertions made in the OP are backed up by the scriptures I'll answer the question.
Would you please find the question asked in the OP? I'm having some difficulty locating it.
Which of them would YOU say ARE required for salvation?
02 Feb 22
@sonship saidI don’t know.
@divegeester
I read your thoughts on things pertinent and not to "salvation."
Could you give your thoughts on this?
When Romans 5:9 says " . . . we will be saved through Him from the wrath."
What does "the wrath" refer to there?
02 Feb 22
@sonship saidNo, I think I am shooting you in the foot.
Divegeester,
I have another question I would like you to addressed as honestly as you can.
Has it ever come across your mind ? ie. "By arguing against sonship on some points I am actually shooting myself in the foot inadvertenly."
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@pb1022 saidBump for dive.
<<Salvation is free and for everyone. It refers to not being extinct after death.>>
How do you square this statement with…
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
(John 3:16)
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine he ...[text shortened]...
Jesus Christ, the Apostle John and the Apostle Paul are all saying the same thing in those verses.
I actually don’t expect a response because those verses (and I could find more) blow your ridiculous OP out of the water.
Now explain why you don’t share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with other people - the way you demand of Christians on here.
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I don’t know.
Or maybe you don't want to know.
Wrath is first mentioned in the letter in chapter 1.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold down the truth in unrighteousness." (1:18)
It probably has to do with that same wrath in chapter 5.
Ie - the wrath that we can be saved from through Christ.
Further reasons for this wrath are given from verse 19 through to 32.
Though we cannot see exactly what the wrath is, we can see the causes of it going
to be revealed.
I think the wrath also has to do with "the judgment of God" which Paul says is "according to truth" (2:2) It is not a matter of wrath because of God playing favorites. But the wrath of judgment which is according to truth. That is the truth of His righteous being.
This wrath is mentioned again as being stored up and accumulated by people PERSONALLY. I take that to mean one can stored up the appropriate or specifically assigned degree of wrath on a personal basis. - A punishment that fits the crime.
"But, according to your hardness and you unrepentant heart, you are storing up for yourself wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each according to his works. . . "(2:5,6)
We have some evidence about the nature of this wrath which He sent Christ to save us from. Christ, who " . . . we will be saved through Him from the wrath." (5:9)
We know that the wrath involves God's fury and man's tribulation and anguish.
"But to those who are selfishly contentious and disonedient to the trith and obey unrighteousness, wrath and fury. Tribulation and anguish on every soul of man who commits evil, both of Jew first and of Greek . . . "(2:8,9)
We can get some indication about this wrath that we can be saved from right within Romans. It doesn't sound good. Another word associated with it is perish.
"For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without the law . . . " (11,12)
We also can see a definite time when this judgment will occur upon even "the secrets of men" - "In the day when God judges the secrets of men according to my gospel through Jesus Christ." (2:16)
It seems like the reader of Romans does not have to be left altogether ignorant about this wrath from which we can be saved through Jesus Christ.
02 Feb 22
1 edit
@sonship saidSo Christians escape the wrath, and they are under no law but under Grace. Clearly that is what you believe, and you can sin and all sins are forgiven.
@divegeesterI don’t know.
Or maybe you don't want to know.
Wrath is first mentioned in the letter in chapter 1.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold down the truth in unrighteousness." (1:18)
It probably has to do with that same wrath in chapter 5. ...[text shortened]... be left altogether ignorant about this wrath from which we can be saved through Jesus Christ.
Now Paul believed no such thing. Had Paul believed that is true there would be no need to constantly tell born again Christians to live righteously and avoid sin otherwise there is NO INHERITANCE in the Kingdom of God.
So your doctrine is a lie.
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02 Feb 22
1 edit
So Christians escape the wrath, and they are under no law but under Grace. Clearly that is what you believe, and you can sin and all sins are forgiven.
Clearly you reject Romans 5:9 and lie to twist the teaching of the NT.
Clearly you have decided NOT to believe -
"Much more then, having been justified in His blood, we will be saved through Him from the wrath." (Rom. 5:9)
Clearly you have decided to accuse the Apostle Paul of lying and encouraging believers to go and continue after believing to commit sins all the more.
If I thought you were capable of feeling shame in this regard, I would say - Shame on you.
Now Paul believed no such thing. Had Paul believed that is true there would be no need to constantly tell born again Christians to live righteously and avoid sin otherwise there is NO INHERITANCE in the Kingdom of God.
So your doctrine is a lie.
You are a shifting, undecided, inconsistent liar.
Missing the reward of the millennial kingdom is different from "the wrath" from which the believers are saved through the blood of Christ's redemption.
02 Feb 22
@sonship saidI’m aware of what you believe about your version of Jesus.
@divegeesterI don’t know.
Or maybe you don't want to know.
Wrath is first mentioned in the letter in chapter 1.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold down the truth in unrighteousness." (1:18)
It probably has to do with that same wrath in chapter 5. ...[text shortened]... be left altogether ignorant about this wrath from which we can be saved through Jesus Christ.
02 Feb 22
@sonship saidPaul said NO INHERITANCE and you say missing the rewards of the millennial kingdom.
@Rajk999
So Christians escape the wrath, and they are under no law but under Grace. Clearly that is what you believe, and you can sin and all sins are forgiven.
Clearly you reject Romans 5:9 and lie to twist the teaching of the NT.
Clearly you have decided NOT to believe -
"Much more then, having been justified in His blood, we ...[text shortened]... from [b]"the wrath" from which the believers are saved through the blood of Christ's redemption.
Who is the liar and deceiver.
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02 Feb 22
2 edits
Oh, and Divegeester, you who love the "Gotcha" questions to repeat asking again and again - Did you ever answer my question on another thread -
Do you consider your righteousness to exceed that of the God of your favorite Psalm 136 ?
Did I ever get your reply on that ?
02 Feb 22
@divegeester saidRight, and your opinions are doctrine.
Doctrines are opinions.
The Bible is full of "sound doctrine", but never do you promote any of them because you're to busy finding fault with what's there.
To you the book is just a fairy tale "where nothing is real, and nothing to get hung about."