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Originally posted by @divegeesterSave your energy, your time, your effort for substantive explanation.
And only a few minutes ago you were complaining about insults 🙄
Where do you see the tendency to form Christians into a denomination in the New Testament ?
If you don't know then shut up and get out of the way and let me teach the people who are interested something.
Then some others can decide if it is waffle or if I have a good point.
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Folks let's just go on. This jackal is going to yelp at me no matter what I write. So I might as well get started.
We first can see the tendency to form Christians into a denomination in the church in Jerusalem in Acts 6:1-6, I would say. However this is only the temptation and the tendency. This was not yet the announcing officially that this was a KIND of church OTHER THAN "the church which was at Jerusalem"
Read first.
"And in those days, as the disciples were multiplying in number , a murmuring of the Hellenist against the Hebrews occurred, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily dispensing" (Acts 6:1)
This was an early plot of the Devil to DIVIDE the church along some cultural or racial fault lines. The Hellenists against the Hebrews, the Hebrews against the Hellenists.
I do not say that they announce a Hellenist Church or they announced a Hebrew Church. But we can see that the seeds of the division were there. The unity smaller than the unity of the Body of Christ was seeking to fester.
The wise apostles stopped it by having the practical matters handled by Spirit filled serving ones.
This was perhaps the first proto denomination problem seeking to emerge. That is a unity based not on One Spirit, One Body, One Head but a worldly and cultural fault line -
The Hellenist (more Greek like Jewish) widows from the Hebrew (more Jewish like) widows.
Someone, somewhere was not in their spirit.
Someone, somewhere was not sensitive to the Holy Spirit.
And someone, somewhere was thinking more along lines of culture than about the oneness of all who had the life of Christ.
Not an official denomination yet.
But the tendency, the temptation was trying to come in to ruin the local oneness of the church in Jerusalem.
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06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipIncidently Divegeester, what I just discribed to you I never read in any book. That is not to say it was never written. That is to say I did not copy anyone's explanation that I know. I also did not plagiarize anything.
Folks let's just go on. This jackal is going to yelp at me no matter what I write. So I might as well get started.
We first can see the tendency to form Christians into a denomination in the church in Jerusalem in [b]Acts 6:1-6, I would say. However this is only the temptation and the tendency. This was not yet the announcing officially that this was ...[text shortened]... ency, the temptation was trying to come in to ruin the local oneness of the church in Jerusalem.[/b]
You can blame ME if I am wrong for it is my own analysis out of my own study of the word of God.
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06 Jun 18
2 edits
What we see in Acts 6:1 was the seeds for what COULD have been the formation of two denominations.
The First Hellenist Church in Jerusalem.
The First Hebrew Church in Jerusalem.
"And in those days as the disciples were multiplying in number,
a murmuring of the Hellenists against the Hebrews occurred, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily dispensing." (Acts 6:1)
At least SOMEBODY or somebodies were not in the Spirit too much.
And at least SOMEBODY or somebodies were not taking the cross upon their sense of being offended.
It could have developed into two denominations splitting "the church which was at Jerusalem" into two divisions.
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06 Jun 18
Some of the immature believers in the church in Jerusalem apparently were more into their culture then they were into the Holy Spirit.
If it had not been arrested then there might have been the formation of a Hellenist denomination as opposed to a Hebrew denomination.
Then in the letter to the seven churches instead of this:
"What you see write in a scroll and sent it to the SEVEN CHURCHES:
to Ephesus
and to Smyrna
and to Pergamos
and to Thyatira
and to Sardis
and to Philodelphia
and to Laodicea.
And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands ..." (Rev. 1:11-12)
We might have had THIS.
"What you see write in a scroll and sent it to the FOURTEEN CHURCHES:
to the Hellenists Church in Ephesus
and to the Hebrew Church in Ephesus
and to the Hellenist Church in Smyrna
and to the Hebrew Church in Smyrna
and to the Hellenist Church in Pergamos
and to the Hebrew Church in Pergamos
etc.
etc.
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipOvercomers from these churches enter the kingdom of God. These are the brothers of Christ, body of Christ. But not all overcome. Within these churches there are some who are not brothers of Christ or Christ sheep. These will face
Some of the immature believers in the church in Jerusalem apparently were more into their culture then they were into the Holy Spirit.
If it had not been arrested then there might have been the formation of a Hellenist denomination as opposed to a Hebrew denomination.
Then in the letter to the seven churches instead of this:
[b] "What you ...[text shortened]... the Hellenist Church in Pergamos
and to the Hebrew Church in Pergamos
etc.
etc.
- removal from the book of life
- having their candlestick moved
- being burned of the second death
Maybe you think that your local church is the body of Christ and God is working to build that church, but that is a delusion. Your doctrine is mouthworship. God will do no such thing to build on that church.
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaFaith is nothing without works.
Some questions, then:
In Matthew 6, at the end, they speak about putting all faith in God providing for us. How can an atheist fulfill this?
In Matthew 7:22, they speak about casting out devils int he name of God. You believe that there are people who become possessed by demons, right, and in the depths of the spiritual warfare that wages across ...[text shortened]... e who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.[/quote]
The greatest of the three, faith hope and charity is charity
All the law is fulfilled in one word ..love.
If you want eternal life, follow the commandments.
Jesus and God abide in those who follow the commandments
These statements are all over the Bible.
They are stated over and over in many different ways
There are examples and illustrations and stories about their application
Jesus said that only those who do good works will enter the Kingdom of God
Why therefore are you church people so obsessed with faith.
Faith is nothing. Living righteously and doing good works is what God wants.
The Church of Christ, the Brotherhood of Christ, Christ's Sheep are the ones who live righteously and do good works and these will enter the Kingdom of God. They are all over the world, they are in all churches and all groups of people.
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Originally posted by @rajk999Jesus spoke of the importance of faith - and faith that was separate from works - numerous times. I’m surprised you don’t know that.
Faith is nothing without works.
The greatest of the three, faith hope and charity is charity
All the law is fulfilled in one word ..love.
If you want eternal life, follow the commandments.
Jesus and God abide in those who follow the commandments
These statements are all over the Bible.
They are stated over and over in many different ways
There are ...[text shortened]... Kingdom of God. They are all over the world, they are in all churches and all groups of people.
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipPlease reply to the specific post of mine that you are referring to. I'm not interested in your random demand questions.
Save your energy, your time, your effort for substantive explanation.
Where do you see the tendency to form Christians into a denomination in the New Testament ?
If you don't know then shut up and get out of the way and let me teach the people who are interested something.
Then some others can decide if it is waffle or if I have a good point.
Telling people to "shut up" because you don't their replies to you is poor form sonship
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Originally posted by @sonship'When Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them. '
One not believing in God certainly will not believe he is serving God or doing any of the work of God.
It is his (the Atheist's) work. So how can it be the work of a God whom he does not believe exists?
Romans 2:15
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeChristians are well aware of that passage. Their response is always the same... that you dont understand what it means. But they will never state what they think it means.
'When Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them. '
Romans 2:15
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterThe "church" is the global spiritual body and network of people who follow the commandments of Christ. According to Christ, these are his people and they will enter the Kingdom of God.
The "church" is the global spiritual body and network of believers. It has absolutely nothing to do with corporate religion, Christian sects, denominations (such as sonships "Local Church" or any other group).
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeYou do realize that this passage is not talking about atheists, right?
'When Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them. '
Romans 2:15
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06 Jun 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @divegeester
The "church" is the global spiritual body and network of believers.
So the seven churches in Revelation 1 were all in God's eyes golden lampstands. Doesn't that imply a global unity? They had the same expression, the same function, the same form. Doesn't that indicate a unity across the globe ?
Sure it does.
its legitimate there, why would it not be legitimate today?
You have no reason why it should not count that churches according to cities share in expression, nature, function, and testimony TODAY.
In fact what Jesus said to any one of the seven churches was to also be heard by the other churches. Seven times, at the end of each letter -
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (ie. v. 7)
That some kind of "spiritual network" between the churches.
Why does that count then but could not count today?
It has absolutely nothing to do with corporate religion, Christian sects, denominations (such as sonships "Local Church" or any other group).
So you are saying it is impossible to have local churches today? Why is it impossible that believers COME BACK to one city matched with one church today? I see yet no reason other than TRADITION of denominations for so long has befuddled everyone that they are filled with unbelief that there could be local churches today.
As for Christian sects, the answer is in the receiving. If a local church will not in principle receive all other believers THEN you may raise the objection of sectarianism. But if a local church practices in principle what Paul prescribes as receiving one another just as Christ received us, then there is no reason why we cannot have genuine local churches today.
When a group insists you cannot partake of the Lord's table for instance unless you believe in a certain non-vital doctrine, that is sectarian. The local churches practice not requiring you to believe certain non-critical doctrines before you can fellowship.