Evil intelligent design of cancer!

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Do you know the answer?

Sure I do. There is no creator, no god - benevolent or malevolent, no intelligent reasoning behind life. Cancer and death are a logical part of life. There is no higher being to blame or be angry at because of nasty things that happen in life. On the flipside, there is also no higher being to thank for because of good things that happen.

I bet it must be easy to criticize others for their beliefs while not standing up for your own. Weak, but easy.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Christians say that he is the creator of everything.
And the intelligent designer has designed the cancer.
So they say.

You started the OP. No hiding now, do YOU (not they) believe God created cancer?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Do you know the answer?

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Sure I do. There is no creator, no god - benevolent or malevolent, no intelligent reasoning behind life.

Of course...

I meant: Do you know the answer the christians use?

As I've heard: "Well, Fabian, it's because the first people, Adam and Eve, ate the forbidden fruit. That's why there is so much evil in the world."

And the christian god made everyone thereafter to suffer. An almighty evil god, if anyone care to ask me. Who wants to worship an evil god? I don't.

Originally posted by yoctobyte
You started the OP. No hiding now, do [b]YOU (not they) believe God created cancer?[/b]

And you know my answer: How can a non-existant god create cancer?

But that is not the question. How can anyone worship such an evil god? How can anyone believe such an unintelligent designer? That's the question I really want to know the answer of.

Obviously there are some billion christians who do just that, worship such an evil god. but they think god is loving and caring and a good god. That's the very essence of the paradox I want to resolve.

How can an almighty god, and a loving and caring god, create cancer who makes innocent people suffer, even children?

When this question is answered and understood, then the christians can ask me why I don't believe in the christian god and why I cannot even think of worship such a loser.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no cancer and disease come as a consequence of genetic aberration after the fall of man, Gods creation was perfect. What is more protection from UV was provided in the form of an atmosphere, an atmosphere that has been eroded and polluted due to human activity.

You know that there are more causes than UV-radiation, don't you?
You know that even animals have cancer, don't you? What 'aberration after the fall of man' do they suffer?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
And you know my answer: How can a non-existant god create cancer?

But that is not the question. How can anyone worship such an evil god? How can anyone believe such an unintelligent designer? That's the question I really want to know the answer of.

Obviously there are some billion christians who do just that, worship such an evil god. but they think ...[text shortened]... me why I don't believe in the christian god and why I cannot even think of worship such a loser.

How can an almighty god, and a loving and caring god, create cancer who makes innocent people suffer, even children?

The answer is, God did not create cancer!

Originally posted by yoctobyte

How can an almighty god, and a loving and caring god, create cancer who makes innocent people suffer, even children?

The answer is, God did not create cancer!

In all this thread you are the first who try to answer the question. Everyone has avoided the quesiton, even the very word 'cancer'. Noone seems to know. One tried with 1632 words, and didn't even use the 'cacner' word.

But you answered the question: "God did not create cancer!"

Okay, then it was the intelligent designer, perhaps?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Okay, then it was the intelligent designer, perhaps?

And that would be?

Originally posted by yoctobyte
And that would be?

Don't ask me. I'm not the fan of these creationist fantasies, using intelligent designer figure to explain everything that they don't understand.

Okay. Not god, and not any intelligent designer, nor any designer or creator at all.

What is your proposal of who created, or what created cancer, and why?

Don't waste time avoiding my question.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You know that there are more causes than UV-radiation, don't you?
You know that even animals have cancer, don't you? What 'aberration after the fall of man' do they suffer?

The Bibles states that the entire creation was subject to futility, which would include the animals.

Romans 8:20

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Don't ask me. I'm not the fan of these creationist fantasies, using intelligent designer figure to explain everything that they don't understand.

Okay. Not god, and not any intelligent designer, nor any designer or creator at all.

What is your proposal of who created, or what created cancer, and why?

Don't waste time avoiding my question.

I apologize in advance for the long post.

There is no avoidance of anything. I know some here don't like to read, but it may be pertinent in this case to understand the origin of cancer or sickness in general for that matter. Whether or not cancer is by 'intelligent design' I will leave that for you to decide, but it is not from God... the Holy One of Israel.

I think you need to shed the notion of "intelligent design" = God. Many a scientist are intelligent and create wonderful things, they also create things that are not so wonderful and downright evil, they are not God! Do you see what I mean?

Job 1

New King James Version (NKJV)
Job and His Family in Uz

1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God and shunned evil. 2 And seven sons and three daughters were born to him. 3 Also, his possessions were seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen, five hundred female donkeys, and a very large household, so that this man was the greatest of all the people of the East.

4 And his sons would go and feast in their houses, each on his appointed day, and would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed[a] God in their hearts.” Thus Job did regularly.
Satan Attacks Job’s Character

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”

9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”

12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”

So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Job Loses His Property and Children

13 Now there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house; 14 and a messenger came to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them, 15 when the Sabeans[c] raided them and took them away—indeed they have killed the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”

16 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”

17 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three bands, raided the camels and took them away, yes, and killed the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”

18 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 19 and suddenly a great wind came from across[d] the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people, and they are dead; and I alone have escaped to tell you!”

20 Then Job arose, tore his robe, and shaved his head; and he fell to the ground and worshiped. 21 And he said:

“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
And naked shall I return there.
The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away;
Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

22 In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.

Job 2

New King James Version (NKJV)
Satan Attacks Job’s Health

2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”

4 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life. 5 But stretch out Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”

6 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand, but spare his life.”

7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord, and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. 8 And he took for himself a potsherd with which to scrape himself while he sat in the midst of the ashes.

9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!”

10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.
Job’s Three Friends

11 Now when Job’s three friends heard of all this adversity that had come upon him, each one came from his own place—Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite. For they had made an appointment together to come and mourn with him, and to comfort him. 12 And when they raised their eyes from afar, and did not recognize him, they lifted their voices and wept; and each one tore his robe and sprinkled dust on his head toward heaven. 13 So they sat down with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his grief was very great.

Satan is the author of sickness! Intelligent? perhaps, cancer is a vile thing for sure and difficult to treat, but not from God.

Satan is the author of suffering! God allows this sometimes for reasons unknown, I can attest to this personally myself. In the book of Job, God was showing Satan that his servant Job was committed even in the midst of trials, no matter what Satan threw his way and he is right. God is not the author of suffering.

Cancer is evil, I agree with you on this 100%, but my friend... it is not from God.

As to why cancer, because Satan seeks to destroy, plain and simple.

Hope that helps.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The Bibles states that the entire creation was subject to futility, which would include the animals.

Romans 8:20

Not the bible, the bible didn't write itself. In this case it was St Paul who stated this, right? His opinion, nothing more.

And what does this mean, in the context of my question? That everything, all the creation has no meaning? So we better go everyone and kill ourselves?

I'm sure that this is not what you meant, because that didn't give any answer at all.

Please, correct me where I misunderstood you.

Originally posted by yoctobyte
[b]I apologize in advance for the long post.

There is no avoidance of anything. I know some here don't like to read, but it may be pertinent in this case to understand the origin of cancer or sickness in general for that matter. Whether or not cancer is by 'intelligent design' I will leave that for you to decide, but it is not from God... ...[text shortened]... God.

As to why cancer, because Satan seeks to destroy, plain and simple.

Hope that helps.[/b]

I skipped the entire past and copy, because it was mostly out of topic, and I couldn't sieve out the answer.

However, if I understand you correctly, your answer is something like this:

(A)
Everything that is good - god did it.
Everything that is bad - satan did it.

Sounds something like Edgar hoover said (my interpretation): "Everything that is good it is american. Everything that is bad is communist." Of this we laugh, right?

...then we should also laugh at (A). Sounds very hollow to me. Perhaps it is the word of Job, but then he is also hollow. An easy way out.

So some of the creation is not of god, right? God is not almighty, right? God doesn't correct the satan part of the creation, because if he was almighty, then he could fix it. Like I would save a drowning cat, and not just stand there and look at the dying cat. God does that, look at the dying people, not lifting a finger. Evil, don't you think?

Have I understood you correctly?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Or a threist? 🙂

One way of not being criticized for ones faith is not to reveal it.
"I am what I am". Who said that? He didn't reveal anything either. Noone complains over that.

But there are too many things about christianity that make me vomit. The title of this thread is one of them. If a god would claim to be loving and caring, then he wouldn't created cancer. My question is how ordinary christians can explain such a paradox.

You say, "If a god would claim to be loving and caring, then he wouldn't [have] created cancer."

God answers: "The problem with that is, with no cancer, you would be complaining about the next worst thing, on down eventually to saying I wouldn't have created rain on your golf day. Besides, you should see some of the things I could have created."

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I skipped the entire past and copy, because it was mostly out of topic, and I couldn't sieve out the answer.

However, if I understand you correctly, your answer is something like this:

(A)
Everything that is good - god did it.
Everything that is bad - satan did it.

Sounds something like Edgar hoover said (my interpretation): "Everything that is ...[text shortened]... e dying people, not lifting a finger. Evil, don't you think?

Have I understood you correctly?

Have I understood you correctly?

Maybe you should read my post, you should at least do the decent thing and try to understand the point I am making which I believe is relevant to your question... before asking me questions related to it.

And no, you have not understood me correctly!

So some of the creation is not of god, right?

Off topic, sorry. Sarin gas, nuclear weapons, biological and chemical agents, etc... all creation, not of God! Does this help clarify?