16 Jun 10
Originally posted by black beetleso we are chemical processes, nothing more. without neurons firing up electricity, there can be no intelligence. and you know this for a fact.
Each event is understood and defined by you as “event” solely thanks to your own measurement/ perception. Before your measurement there is no such a thing as an observed by you “event” but merely a spacetime continuum (which in turn it has no inherent being too because it is merely an invention of your own mind, created by you for your convenience), and ...[text shortened]... ng of inherent being) spacetime is the sole agent that makes you able to register it as such
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aren't you restricting sentient intelligent life to what you are accustomed to? can't you picture a sentient star or black hole? how about a sentient forest organism that uses trees as neurons? sentient crystals? why is it that you only see the world through your human eyes and refuse to acknowledge other possibilities?
16 Jun 10
Originally posted by Zahlanziedit: "so we are chemical processes, nothing more. without neurons firing up electricity, there can be no intelligence. and you know this for a fact."
so we are chemical processes, nothing more. without neurons firing up electricity, there can be no intelligence. and you know this for a fact.
aren't you restricting sentient intelligent life to what you are accustomed to? can't you picture a sentient star or black hole? how about a sentient forest organism that uses trees as neurons? sentient crystals? ...[text shortened]... you only see the world through your human eyes and refuse to acknowledge other possibilities?
I am not a sum of "chemical processes" although I need neurons firing up electricity. My self is empty;
edit: "aren't you restricting sentient intelligent life to what you are accustomed to? can't you picture a sentient star or black hole? how about a sentient forest organism that uses trees as neurons? sentient crystals? why is it that you only see the world through your human eyes and refuse to acknowledge other possibilities?"
I even recognize as "sentient intelligent life" observers like a tree, a flower and a bug, and I consider my skin the "sentient environment" that contains my bodymind. I do not acknowledge "life" as a specific manifestation that has definately to cope with my own perception regarding "life"
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16 Jun 10
Originally posted by black beetleso why is your human mind the only thing shaping reality?
edit: "so we are chemical processes, nothing more. without neurons firing up electricity, there can be no intelligence. and you know this for a fact."
I am not a sum of "chemical processes" although I need neurons firing up electricity. My self is empty;
edit: "aren't you restricting sentient intelligent life to what you are accustomed to? can' ...[text shortened]... estation that has definately to cope with my own perception regarding "life"
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16 Jun 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziThe human mind is not the sole thing creating reality; each observer collapses the wavefunction according to its species and to its own perceptions, and thus it creates a different reality. I create reality differently than a cat, turtle, an ant, an oak tree and a horse
so why is your human mind the only thing shaping reality?
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16 Jun 10
Originally posted by black beetlewhat is the wavefunction and why does it collapse 🙂
The human mind is not the sole thing creating reality; each observer collapses the wavefunction according to its species and to its own perceptions, and thus it creates a different reality. I create reality differently than a cat, turtle, an ant, an oak tree and a horse
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16 Jun 10
Originally posted by black beetlehow do you know that? how do you know that you don't collapse the wave function differently even than the next human? and how do you know that once you die you wont be able to observe anymore?
The human mind is not the sole thing creating reality; each observer collapses the wavefunction according to its species and to its own perceptions, and thus it creates a different reality. I create reality differently than a cat, turtle, an ant, an oak tree and a horse
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ignoring the fact that this phenomenon is on a subatomic level. i don't have to observe my car to stop it from vibrating in the sevenths dimensions while dancing in my parking lot, on the school roof and in your living room at the same time.
16 Jun 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWelcome back rabbie my trusty feer, it's been long time since I had the pleasure to enjoy a conversation wi ye!
what is the wavefunction and why does it collapse 🙂
"Wavefunction" in the quantum physics is the mathematical description of potential existence, and it attributes the fundamental description of unobserved reality. The wavefunction collapses when a specific possibility within this realm of potentiality assigns a probability that is coming into existence when the system in question is measured/ observed.
Therefore the role of consiousness in the process of reality is tremendous; methinks mind creates the Floating World -the objective world that surrounds us- out of its own perception
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16 Jun 10
Originally posted by black beetle"in the quantum physics"
Welcome back rabbie my trusty feer, it's been long time since I had the pleasure to enjoy a conversation wi ye!
"Wavefunction" in the quantum physics is the mathematical description of potential existence, and it attributes the fundamental description of unobserved reality. The wavefunction collapses when a specific possibility within this realm of ...[text shortened]... ates the Floating World -the objective world that surrounds us- out of its own perception
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is the most important part of the definition
16 Jun 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziI know that I collapse the wavefunction mainly as the other human beings due to our main products that we are using constantly, which are science and philosophy. And at the same time I know I collapse the wavefunction differently than you because I am a product of the science of our era and a product of specific products of specific systems of philosophy: my philosophy is different than yours and still our cars and our technology work just fine;
how do you know that? how do you know that you don't collapse the wave function differently even than the next human? and how do you know that once you die you wont be able to observe anymore?
ignoring the fact that this phenomenon is on a subatomic level. i don't have to observe my car to stop it from vibrating in the sevenths dimensions while dancing in my parking lot, on the school roof and in your living room at the same time.
During deep meditation I minimize my conceptual awareness to the hilt, and so the subtle mind within me elevates above dualism -All return to One. This kind of subtle mind observes no thing because there is no thing to be observed, for the cause-effect bond is under these circumstances extremely weakened. This is called "non-conceptual awareness". But once I encouter distraction and I unleash my mind and my rest five senses in order to attain perception, non-conceptual awareness becomes subtle in favour of my energetic common conceptual awareness -One returns to All.
So I see no difference between Life and Death -to me, they are just two waves. The waves pass, the ocean remains -and I am in oneness with the totally calm ocean instead of "being" "right now" the wave "life" and "then" the wave "death".
Regarding your car (and every object of the Floaring World), I say your car is real but empty
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16 Jun 10
Originally posted by black beetleits too much for this simple villager beetle, he needs illustrations from everyday life to make complex and profound ideas graspable, never the less i thank you for your salutations and return to the Morra, that deviation of the Sicilian which is naught but a crow masquerading as a peacock! health to you my friend 🙂
Welcome back rabbie my trusty feer, it's been long time since I had the pleasure to enjoy a conversation wi ye!
"Wavefunction" in the quantum physics is the mathematical description of potential existence, and it attributes the fundamental description of unobserved reality. The wavefunction collapses when a specific possibility within this realm of ...[text shortened]... ates the Floating World -the objective world that surrounds us- out of its own perception
😵
17 Jun 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ZahlanziThe "BIG long now" as I call it is an illusion as is time and most of our reality. So what? These illusions give us a reflection of the "inner world". As above, so below.
the long now as you call it is an illusion. you never live solely in the present. you plan for the future, you use information from the past. you know what organisms live solely in the moment? inferior ones. bugs, moluscs, bacterias. they see food, they go towards the food they eat food, they crap they reproduce and they die.
is that what you want?
...[text shortened]... e past(or should). humans enjoy the moment. living in the present is no way to expand your mind.
I plan for the future but the best laid plans of mice and men oft go astray, so I dont bank on future results.
I'm not attached to results. I find the process more important for improving my daily connection with Spirit.
Living in the present IS a way to expand your mind, but this also depends on right thinking and proper evalutaion of each situation. Yes, living in the present alone is no way to expand your mind.
Sometimes I'm not sure where you are going with some of your posts, that is not to say that I do not think that you have the heart and courage to be a real player in the greater scheme of things. It just means that between us we have not established any common ground with the language to move futhur.
I'm confident that we share the same Mind, and hence always have the potential for furthur understanding.🙂 Take care...
17 Jun 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBuddha said amongst else that the self after death neither exists, nor does not exist, nor both, nor neither. This thought describes in full amongst else the essense of the reality of the Floating World too, it became the core essense of Nagarjuna's philosophy and it is known as tetralemma: the Indian wanted to prove the sutras right, and according to the sutras the manifestation of the solidity of the self and of the Floating World alike is illusionary because reality is hovering between neither existence or non-existence nor both nor neither. Every practicioner of the 6 Buddhist schools knows that the phenomena that arise in the Floating World are neither existent nor nonexistent, nor both, nor neither. Nagarjuna, along with the Yogacara, Dzogchen and Zen practicioners, shows how exactly these phenomena don't exist as they appear and defines precisely the dynamic condition known as emptiness (shunyata/ sunyata).
its too much for this simple villager beetle, he needs illustrations from everyday life to make complex and profound ideas graspable, never the less i thank you for your salutations and return to the Morra, that deviation of the Sicilian which is naught but a crow masquerading as a peacock! health to you my friend 🙂
Nagarjuna's analytical philosophy is extremely solid and works fine, but to many it remained incomprehensible because only a few could really understand that "all is real and not real, both real and not real, neither real nor not real". We had to wait until the quantum physics era in order to back up this theory scientifically. Shroendiger's wavefunction is not merely a mathematical device that is used solely in order to predict the probabilities of locating particles in certain places. In fact the wavefunction is empty since it is a mathematical formulism, and at the same time it entails physical effectiveness. And this is the case regarding sunyata too.
Be well and take care wi that funny Morra😵
17 Jun 10
Originally posted by black beetlelol, ill need to take your word for it dear Beetle, i guess even after the advent of quantumn mechanics there are still some of us happy in the golden age of steam engines 🙂
Buddha said amongst else that the self after death neither exists, nor does not exist, nor both, nor neither. This thought describes in full amongst else the essense of the reality of the Floating World too, it became the core essense of Nagarjuna's philosophy and it is known as tetralemma: the Indian wanted to prove the sutras right, and according to t ...[text shortened]... And this is the case regarding sunyata too.
Be well and take care wi that funny Morra😵