Free will

@fmf said
I laid out why I don't think one can decide to be superstitious or decide to have religious faith or decide not to be superstitious or decide not to have religious faith in my OP. It's different from deciding to believe that the laws in Saudi Arabia forbid alcohol and such like.

Is it irrational to be superstitious?

Doesn't superstition connote irrationality?

@philokalia said
How isn't this free will?

You can decide what you believe.

No, not when it comes to supernatural causality. See my OP and subsequent comments.

@fmf said
No, not when it comes to supernatural causality. See my OP and subsequent comments.

But belief in God, or supernatural causality, isn't the same thing as superstition, right?

I'm asking whether or not believing in something like black cats cause bad lick, etc., you know, superstitious things, if that is irrational.

@philokalia said
Is it irrational to be superstitious?

Doesn't superstition connote irrationality?

I think belief in supernatural causality is a sort of blend of intricate interwoven perceptions, opinions and assumptions, "gut feelings" [instinct, intuition] - and highly personal things like aspiration and emotion and identity and belonging - that religious people rationalize and even intellectualize by reference to the doctrines that they have memorized and internalized.

It is so intensely personal and subjective that, when it is rooted in detailed texts, stories, allegories, myths, dogma etc. and compounded by centuries of analysis and additional conjecture and synthesis, it generates its own internal logic and tailor made intellectual justifications which can portray themselves as universal and common sensical.

The 'rational substance' is found in the doctrine and the certainly about things that cannot be proven to be real and true and which are not felt or found to be credible by everyone

I think this is therefore a version of subjective "rationality" that is shared by only those within the group that experiences and adheres to the same faith, and not a form of "rationality" that people outside the group - or who belong to competing groups - can subscribe to.

@philokalia said
But belief in God, or supernatural causality, isn't the same thing as superstition, right?

I'm asking whether or not believing in something like black cats cause bad lick, etc., you know, superstitious things, if that is irrational.

As I have told you before, I use the word superstition to mean "belief in supernatural causality".

@fmf said
I think belief in supernatural causality is a sort of blend of intricate interwoven perceptions, opinions and assumptions, "gut feelings" [instinct, intuition] - and highly personal things like aspiration and emotion and identity and belonging - that religious people rationalize and even intellectualize by reference to the doctrines that they have memorized and internalized.

...[text shortened]... "rationality" that people outside the group - or who belong to competing groups - can subscribe to.

Is this a copy and paste from earlier? It feels like it.

Regardless, what about belief in God in the sense of the prime mover or fine tuned universe theory is a rationalization?

It's speculative philosophy. But so is speculating that there is no God.

@fmf said
As I have told you before, I use the word superstition to mean "belief in supernatural causality".

So you take a common word that is considered a pejorative and was used to attack things like black cats causing bad luck and apply it to religion and use it as a pejorative.

And this pejorative is how you engage others who wish to debate you.

And you'll whine bitterly if you think someone has called you a fool while you collectively use words that call people fools when debating them

Lol

Or am I wrong?

Is it OK if others take hostile stances against you as well?

@philokalia said
Is this a copy and paste from earlier? It feels like it..

I typed it for you just now.

@philokalia said
So you take a common word that is considered a pejorative and was used to attack things like black cats causing bad luck and apply it to religion and use it as a pejorative.

And this pejorative is how you engage others who wish to debate you.

And you'll whine bitterly if you think someone has called you a fool while you collectively use words that call people fools ...[text shortened]... ating them

Lol

Or am I wrong?

Is it OK if others take hostile stances against you as well?

I think my use of the words "superstition" and "superstitious" is fine. I never use it pejoratively.

@philokalia said
Regardless, what about belief in God in the sense of the prime mover or fine tuned universe theory is a rationalization?

I am open minded about it. We are, though, talking about religion etc.

@philokalia said
It's speculative philosophy. But so is speculating that there is no God.

I don't believe there is no god or gods.

@philokalia said
Is this a copy and paste from earlier? It feels like it.

Is this your response? Feels like a sidestep.

@fmf said
I think my use of the words "superstition" and "superstitious" is fine. I never use it pejoratively.

Were you unaware that superstitious has a negative context?

@fmf said
I don't believe there is no god or gods.

So what do you believe, then? You're an agnostic?

@philokalia said
Were you unaware that superstitious has a negative context?

I am not using it negatively or pejoratively.