Free

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]"Ultimately, every word of the Bible are "the words of Jesus". To suggest that I place more importance on Paul, or the church, or anything else is misleading."

There's nothing "misleading" about it. Take the passage that we've been discussing. Jesus explicitly and clearly states that you will be made free from the slavery of committing sin. Yet ...[text shortened]... your insistence that Jesus was speaking of freedom from the penalty of sin.[/b]

"The parts of the Bible that I discount are the ones that contradict His teachings."

There are no contradictions in the Bible.

Belief that there are contradictions in the Bible has its' root in irrationality. It's what Satan would have you to believe.
It's a deception.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"The parts of the Bible that I discount are the ones that contradict His teachings."

There are no contradictions in the Bible.

Belief that there are contradictions in the Bible has its' root in irrationality. It's what Satan would have you to believe.
It's a deception.[/b]

Here are the pertinent statements of John 8:32-36
"Everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever. If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Jesus explicitly and clearly states that by continuing in His word, you will be made free from the slavery of committing sin, yet you insist that in John 8:32-36 Jesus is speaking of freedom from the penalty of sin. This is irrational. Your belief contradicts what Jesus explicitly and clearly states, yet you insist that you believe every word that Jesus said. This is irrational. If Satan is at work, it is in you. I hope you find a way to overcome your pride and accept the truth.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Here are the pertinent statements of John 8:32-36
"Everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever. If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Jesus explicitly and clearly states that by continuing in His word, you will ...[text shortened]... n is at work, it is in you. I hope you find a way to overcome your pride and accept the truth.

"Here are the pertinent statements of John 8:32-36
"Everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever. If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Jesus explicitly and clearly states that by continuing in His word, you will be made free from the slavery of committing sin,.."

Your perception and interpretation of what Jesus said is in question.


The one who commits sin is a slave of sin. If one is a slave of sin, then one is destined to commit sin. In order to be free from committing sin one must "continue" in "His" word.

It seems to me, ToO, that the logical sequence of ceasing to commit sin is to be made free from "slavery" to sin. "Slavery" to sin seems to imply that we have a problem that we can't cure without "continuing" in His (Jesus'😉 word.

Now I would ask you to describe what it means to "continue" in His word? And while you're at it, tell me HOW one does it.


"If Satan is at work, it is in you. I hope you find a way to overcome your pride and accept the truth."

Keep your judgements of me to yourself.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"Here are the pertinent statements of John 8:32-36
"Everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever. If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Jesus explicitly and clearly states that by continuing in His word, you wil pride and accept the truth."

Keep your judgements of me to yourself.[/b]

Your perception and interpretation of what Jesus said is in question.

Lest you forget, what's really in question is how when Jesus explicitly and clearly states that by continuing in His word, you will be made free from the slavery of committing sin, insist that in John 8:32-36 Jesus is speaking of freedom from the penalty of sin.

The one who commits sin is a slave of sin. If one is a slave of sin, then one is destined to commit sin. In order to be free from committing sin one must "continue" in "His" word.

It seems to me, ToO, that the logical sequence of ceasing to commit sin is to be made free from "slavery" to sin. "Slavery" to sin seems to imply that we have a problem that we can't cure without "continuing" in His (Jesus'😉 word.

This is largely what I've been saying all along. Go back and read my posts if you don't believe it. The only exception is your conclusion that there is an implication "that we have a problem that we can't cure without "continuing" in His (Jesus'😉 word". This is a logical fallacy. While it is true that Jesus states that you can be freed from the slavery of committing sin by continuing in His word, it doesn't follow that it is the only way.

Now I would ask you to describe what it means to "continue" in His word? And while you're at it, tell me HOW one does it.

I've addressed this in earlier posts. I don't know that there's that much more to add. Perhaps Jesus give the key here:

John 14:21-24
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him...If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my words.

If you truly love Jesus you will keep His commandments. If you don't, you won't.

Keep your judgements of me to yourself.

Interesting that such a request come from someone who has said the following:

"Belief that there are contradictions in the Bible has its' root in irrationality. It's what Satan would have you to believe."

"Look, ToO, don't be offended, but your reply to Jesus' own words is demented."

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Your perception and interpretation of what Jesus said is in question.

Lest you forget, what's really in question is how when Jesus explicitly and clearly states that by continuing in His word, you will be made free from the slavery of committing sin, insist that in John 8:32-36 Jesus is speaking of freedom from the penalty of sin.

The one offended, but your reply to Jesus' own words is demented."

"If you truly love Jesus you will keep His commandments. If you don't, you won't."

The same goes for you and everyone else.

I'll ask you again. Name one person who can keep the commandments besides Jesus.

You can't. Your entire argument hinges on keeping the law. And since no one can do it, you must answer the question. How can one obtain the righteousness the law demands if one cannot keep the law?

Originally posted by josephw
"If you truly love Jesus you will keep His commandments. If you don't, you won't."

The same goes for you and everyone else.

I'll ask you again. Name one person who can keep the commandments besides Jesus.

You can't. Your entire argument hinges on keeping the law. And since no one can do it, you must answer the question. How can one obtain the righteousness the law demands if one cannot keep the law?

Who said you can't keep the law?

Originally posted by josephw
"If you truly love Jesus you will keep His commandments. If you don't, you won't."

The same goes for you and everyone else.

I'll ask you again. Name one person who can keep the commandments besides Jesus.

You can't. Your entire argument hinges on keeping the law. And since no one can do it, you must answer the question. How can one obtain the righteousness the law demands if one cannot keep the law?

Of course it goes for everyone. However, I think you miss the point. Do you really think that Jesus would set a standard like that if He didn't believe it possible? If Jesus did not think it possible, then what's His point? His message is that people can tell themselves that they love Him or they can call him "Lord", but it's empty unless they actually follow his commandments. He sets the standard there and in the following as well as in other places.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

That "name on person" argument is really weak. For one, clearly Jesus believes that ALL can keep His commandments if they love Him. For another, prove that no one has ever kept His commandments. It's ridiculous to assert that "no one can do it" unless you can prove otherwise. If you believe everything that Jesus says as you have claimed, then you're going to have to take His word for it. Seems like that's just a part of "continuing in His word".

Originally posted by daniel58
Who said you can't keep the law?

Romans 7:14-25

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Originally posted by josephw
Romans 7:14-25

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

F ...[text shortened]... ur Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

He's talking about; temptations, his body which is PRONE to sin, and probably about the devil who "buffeted" him.