Freedom FROM religion foundation!

Originally posted by sonship
sonhouse,

I guess theists cannot accept the idea there may be multiple universes since that would go directly against the 'in the beginning' part of the bible.

As of yet there is no scientific evidence for multiple universes. If you have [b]EVIDENCE put your link up. I don't mean the hand wavings of imaginative quantum physicists ...[text shortened]... better get some arguable scientific evidence from your link if I go spend the time there.[/b]

Sonhouse's link first ASKS -

The dark circles show regions of the universe that are cooler than average. Could each ring provide information about what happened before the Big Bang? (V.G.Gurzadyan and R.Penrose)

Scientists analyzing the ubiquitous cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR) observed throughout the Universe have claimed they’ve discovered a pattern in its signal.

And having watched a recent episode of Stargate Universe (SGU) — an awesome sci-fi series, and one of my favorites — a storyline involving a pattern in the CMBR has just aired. Although the SGU CMBR pattern has a very different origin to what this most recent discovery is suggesting, it is a testament to how awesome accurate science fiction writing can be.

The CMBR provides strong evidence of a Big Bang (i.e., everything came from a compressed, hot state) and universal inflation (i.e., the rapid expansion of the Universe immediately after the Big Bang).

In an unpublished paper submitted to the arXiv preprint service, world-renowned Oxford University physicist Roger Penrose and co-author Vahe Gurzadyan from the Yerevan Physics Institute in Armenia have announced a pattern in the CMBR that could reveal events that occurred before the Big Bang.

If Penrose and Gurzadyan suggested that evidence of a pre-Big Bang Universe survived into our Universe without any physical proof, it would be highly speculative at best; the kind of discussion you’d only have in an advanced theoretical physics class.

ANALYSIS: In the Beginning, the Universe was a Liquid
A Cyclical Universe?

According to the pair of physicists, there is a circular pattern embedded in the CMBR like ripples (pictured top). These ripples show slight decreases in average temperature in a cyclical manner. The reason? This could be evidence for repeated birth and death of the Universe, or universes, that came before our current 13.75 billion year-old Universe.

Cosmic inflation — the rapid, exponential increase in universal volume between 10-36 to 10-32 seconds after the Big Bang — would have erased any trace of these pre-Big Bang cycles. If we can “see” previous universes, this suggests inflation might not be entirely correct, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Sonhouse, so far I read about speculative concepts about what I would call a rebounding universe, repetative cycle style. [edited]

So far I do not see discussed PARALLEL multiple universes. Possibly, one right after another after another in non-simultaneous secession.

Sounds like a new variation of a steady state situation which the Big Bang cosmology unseated as the most plausible model of the universe.

I am reading on though.

So are these apparent rings in the CMBR the remnants of universes past? Are they a cosmic ticker-tape keeping count of the number of universes that have come before?

Needless to say, there’s a huge number of reasons to believe this CMBR pattern could be something entirely different, but it is certainly intriguing considering the physicists used two different instruments (WMAP and BOOMERANG) and found a similar pattern in both.

Now the article really pulls out its heavy artillery for parallel universes in a MULTIVERSE - a Science Fiction episode -

ANALYSIS: Are We Living in a Hologram?
Sci-Fi Does Sci-Fact

So what’s my reference to SGU got to do with this mindboggling research? In the sci-fi plot line, our human explorers aboard the Ancients’ spaceship Destiny are currently on a whirlwind tour of interstellar and intergalactic space where each episode is punctuated with crew problems, alien encounters, stargates and wormholes. The Ancients, as the name suggests, is an extinct (we assume) ancient hi-tech alien race.

In “The Greater Good,” an episode that ran a couple of weeks ago, physicist Nicolas Rush (played by the superb Robert Carlyle) announced that he knows what the Ancients were studying (thereby revealing the main story arc of the whole season): a pattern discovered in the cosmic background radiation.

The thing is, in this sci-fi universe, the CMBR pattern isn’t natural, it has an artificial structure.

Finally the conclusive article comes to its end -

Needless to say, when I first read about this research, SGU came to mind. Although I don’t think for a second that some kind of intelligence created our universe (and the ringed pattern in the CMBR is some kind of signature of the technology that did it), it is a wonderful sci-fi plot that has stumbled into science fact.

As Robert Carlyle says in the following Stargate interview, “That’s pretty epic.”

I couldn’t agree more.

Originally posted by sonship
Finally the conclusive article comes to its end -

[quote] Needless to say, when I first read about this research, SGU came to mind. Although I don’t think for a second that some kind of intelligence created our universe (and the ringed pattern in the CMBR is some kind of signature of the technology that did it), it is a wonderful sci-fi plot that has stu ...[text shortened]... med to pinpoint where NO BEGINNING to this cycle was theorized in that article. I didn't see it.

You still haven't answered my question,

I guess theists cannot accept the idea there may be multiple universes since that would go directly against the 'in the beginning' part of the bible. The thing is, there IS evidence of other universes, in the CMR, cosmic background radiation:

http://news.discovery.com/space/a-fingerprint-embedded-in-cosmic-background-radiation.htm

The circular patterns are real and one explanation is contact with another universe.

If you have another explanation, I would be glad to read it. Hopefully not just a pile of scripture but your own mind working on the problem, unlike RJ who has no mind to give his own analysis, he can only spout what others have told him.

why does it matter whether we live in a universe of one universe and that's all folks or we live in a universe where there are an infinite number of the suckers?

So what? I am totally prepared to accept evidence for both ideas,

it won't make a whit of difference as to whether or not I can pay my mortgage or anything else on the planet,

it only matters as a quest to more knowledge. Hey, maybe (going sci fi on you here a thousand years from now, if we prove there are other universes, we figure out a doorway to visit them and also solve the problem of what to do if our universe collapses in on itself or some such.

Hey It could happen

Originally posted by sonhouse
Well it sounds like you can at least THINK about the idea that there is more than one universe.

It just solves some nagging problems with entropy if there are a bunch of universes floating around out there. Remember, when we say 'floating', we are not talking about a ping pong ball literally floating on water, they would be floating in some kind of high ...[text shortened]... t just a visualizing aide.

But why do theists reject the very concept of multiple universes?

"What matters at the moment is that we know of ONE universe. And we are pretty certain that the ONE we know of had a beginning"

Nobody is arguing against that point. There is evidence that what we think of as our universe is more than it seems.

So do you have some kind of explanation as to the presence of the patterns in the temperatures of the CMB?

Regardless of whether there are other universes or not, why are theists so dead set against even THINKING about the possibility? You can't state as a fact there are no other universes so what is the big deal?

"What matters at the moment is that we know of ONE universe. And we are pretty certain that the ONE we know of had a beginning"

Nobody is arguing against that point. There is evidence that what we think of as our universe is more than it seems.

So do you have some kind of explanation as to the presence of the patterns in the temperatures of the CMB?

Regardless of whether there are other universes or not, why are theists so dead set against even THINKING about the possibility?

You can't state as a fact there are no other universes so what is the big deal?

"I might have said why are atheists like you dead set against a UNI-verse with a BEGINNING "?

In the first place, why do you insist on putting in the atheist category? I never claimed to be atheistic, just deny the so-called god you people in your delusions, worship as if it were real.

Also, I am not dead set against a single universe with a definite beginning. I know you love that idea because of 'in the beginning', but that alone is not enough to prove the biblical fairy tales of creation.

Although it does tickle my fancy to see theists squirm at the mere mention of the idea of multiple universes.

How many dimensions do you think there are to our universe?

Originally posted by sonhouse
"I might have said why are atheists like you dead set against a UNI-verse with a BEGINNING "?

In the first place, why do you insist on putting in the atheist category? I never claimed to be atheistic, just deny the so-called god you people in your delusions, worship as if it were real.

Also, I am not dead set against a single universe with a definit ...[text shortened]... the idea of multiple universes.

How many dimensions do you think there are to our universe?

Originally posted by RJHinds
I believe there are three dimensions. Today, many people believe time is also a dimension. That would make four dimensions, at most. However, there are some spaced-out people who claim there must be ten dimensions based on their wacky mathematical formulas and religious beliefs. Some believe the Heaven where God lives is in another dimension that we can ...[text shortened]... et provided anything but theories for the existence of these added dimensions.

The Instructor

Originally posted by sonhouse
If we only have 3 dimensions and time, how do you explain the fact that space, the composite of those 3 dimensions, is malleable? Light follows space so if space is bent so is the path light takes through space. Do you deny that?