18 Jul 10
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Originally posted by galveston75By proxy (you)...You claim that we humans are screwing up the world and so God should step in and make it all better when infact the fault lies squarely at it's feet for allegedly appointing us humans to have stewardship over the planet in the first place. Moreover if the Bible is true he already got it wrong once when he had to slaughter the entire world with a flood.
Why is he a bad workman so that he blames his tools?
Your god is a cowboy! (term used in the UK to denote bad workman with dubious ethics)
18 Jul 10
Originally posted by AgergSo your saying the problems we have are not our fault but God's because he created us? Hummm?
By proxy (you)...You claim that we humans are screwing up the world and so God should step in and make it all better when infact the fault lies squarely at it's feet for allegedly appointing us humans to have stewardship over the planet in the first place. Moreover if the Bible is true he already got it wrong once when he had to slaughter the entire world with ...[text shortened]... flood.
Your god is a cowboy! (term used in the UK to denote bad workman with dubious ethics)
So are we to blame our own parents for the mistakes we make?
18 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75A New Heaven and Earth
One needs to reason on the many scriptures I quoted earlier where it says the earth we are on now will be here forever. And as you know there are many scriptures that speak of events that are figurative and not literal. So if the scriptures I quoted are true, then the ones that your referring to have to be figuative in the sense that a cleansing of the t ...[text shortened]... to destroy the earth in the past but he used the flood to do a cleansing of sorts at that time.
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!
13But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
So is this figurative? Or literal? G-75? This might be able to be argued as figurative but it seem that the writer seemed to have a literal understanding of this.
PS: We can use this forum that's what it's for 🙂 Ridiculed or not who cares my friend.
Manny
19 Jul 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelWell I don't care, that is the truth. I also don't care if you don't like it (that's not an insult just the truth).
You think I wanna read post like yours? "I dont care" ?
Why would you bother posting that? Seems oxymoronic.
You know I dont always hit the "post" button with my comments.
But I always hit "edit" 😉
Do you care about all the billions of people who have previously lived and died on Earth? No of course not, you have never met them. Well why should I care about all the people who will live and die who I will never meet because I'm rotting in my box? The future of the human race is bleak whether you look short, medium or long term.
If you want truth, stay away from the mire of sentimentality. There is hope however.
20 Jul 10
Originally posted by menace71Will God himself destroy the earth by fire?
A New Heaven and Earth
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
...[text shortened]... : We can use this forum that's what it's for 🙂 Ridiculed or not who cares my friend.
Manny
Does 2 Peter 3:7, 10 (KJ) support that view? “The heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition [“destruction,” RS] of ungodly men
((((( Notice it says: Ungodly men, not the planet itself))))). . . .
The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works
((((( "Works" or actions of mankind, not the planet )))))
that are therein shall be burned up [“burned (burnt) up,” RS, JB; “will vanish,” TEV; “will be made manifest,” NAB; “will be laid bare,” NE; “will be discovered,” NW].” (Note: The Codex Sinaiticus and Vatican MS 1209, both of the 4th century C.E., read “be discovered.” Later manuscripts, the 5th-century Codex Alexandrinus and the 16th-century Clementine recension of the Vulgate, read “be burned up.&rdquo😉
Does Revelation 21:1 (KJ) indicate that our planet will be destroyed? “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
((((((To be correct, the explanation of these verses must agree with the context and with the rest of the Bible.)))))))
If these texts (2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1) mean that the literal planet Earth is to be consumed by fire, then the literal heavens (the stars and other heavenly bodies) are also to be destroyed by fire. Such a literal view, however, conflicts with the assurance contained in such texts as Matthew 6:10, Psalm 37:29 and 104:5, also Proverbs 2:21, 22. Furthermore, what effect would fire have on the already intensely hot sun and stars? So the term “earth” in the above-quoted texts must be understood in a different sense.
At Genesis 11:1, First Kings 2:1, 2, First Chronicles 16:31, Psalm 96:1, etc., the term “earth” is used in a figurative sense, referring to mankind, to human society. Might that be the case at 2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1?
Note that, in the context, at 2 Peter 3:5, 6 (also 2:5, 9), a parallel is drawn with the Flood of Noah’s day, in which wicked human society was destroyed, but Noah and his household, as well as the globe itself, were preserved. Likewise, at 2 Peter 3:7 it says that the ones to be destroyed are “ungodly men.” The view that “the earth” here refers to wicked human society fully agrees with the rest of the Bible, as is illustrated by the texts cited above. It is that symbolic “earth,” or wicked human society, that is “discovered”; that is, Jehovah will sear away as by fire all disguise, exposing the wickedness of ungodly human society and showing it to be worthy of complete destruction. That wicked society of humans is also “the first earth,” referred to at Revelation 21:1 (KJ).
Consistently, Jesus’ expression at Luke 21:33 (“heaven and earth will pass away, but . . . &rdquo😉 must be understood in the light of the parallel statement at Luke 16:17 (“it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than . . . &rdquo😉, both of which simply emphasize the impossibility of the situations presented.—See also Matthew 5:18.
21 Jul 10
With all respect your twisting what is written. So how are we to understand this? This old earth will be re-made. Why the words elements will melt with fervent heat and the earth and it works will be burned up? Does it really matter though? If you read it it's plain as day. God will create a new heavens and earth.
Revelation 21
The New Heaven and Earth
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Manny
21 Jul 10
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Originally posted by menace71Well ok. If you do take this literal then it contradicts other scriptures which clearly describe the earth we live on now, the same one that was here when those scriptures were written, as existing forever. How do you explain that? Were those scriptures wrong and we should ignor them?
With all respect your twisting what is written. So how are we to understand this? This old earth will be re-made. Why the words elements will melt with fervent heat and the earth and it works will be burned up? Does it really matter though? If you read it it's plain as day. God will create a new heavens and earth.
Revelation 21
The New Heaven and Earth ...[text shortened]... for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Manny
Then if you take them literally and everything is destroyed, even the heavens where God, Jesus and angels all reside as well as the physicle universe, then all that will would be destroyed too? If it is all destroyed, how does anyone or anything survive?
So what would be the purpose of the literal universe or heavens being destroyed? If the wicked humans on this planet are the problem, why destroy the planet itself and then even more drastic, destroy all the universe as we know it?
21 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75You're right. The bible shouldn't be read as holy truths.
Well ok. If you do take this literal then it contradicts other scriptures ...
Rather it should be read as texts written by people that have a certain agenda with their writing.
21 Jul 10
Originally posted by divegeesterSure. I can respect your point of view.
Well I don't care, that is the truth. I also don't care if you don't like it (that's not an insult just the truth).
Do you care about all the billions of people who have previously lived and died on Earth? No of course not, you have never met them. Well why should I care about all the people who will live and die who I will never meet because I'm ...[text shortened]... rm.
If you want truth, stay away from the mire of sentimentality. There is hope however.
No I wouldn't care about people I haven't met.
However I do my darndest to be as full of care as possible to the people that do come into my life.🙂
21 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75He didn't say 'hidden agenda' he just said 'agenda'. Many of the writers of the Bible had a specific agenda, as do most writers. Its not always hidden, and not necessarily deliberately hidden even if it is not at first obvious.
What exactly are these hidden agenda's that you refer to from time to time?
22 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Here is a nice simple question Galveston.
Well ok. If you do take this literal then it contradicts other scriptures which clearly describe the earth we live on now, the same one that was here when those scriptures were written, as existing forever. How do you explain that? Were those scriptures wrong and we should ignor them?
Then if you take them literally and everything is destroyed, even th ...[text shortened]... hy destroy the planet itself and then even more drastic, destroy all the universe as we know it?
Manny takes a literal view, and you take a figurative view of the events relating to the state of the earth in the future. These are simply personal interpretations. The way the Bible is worded there is often no possible way that one interpretation is correct.
Are there any negative consequences of believing Manny's point of view. .. say on judgment day?