23 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Thank you. I like that statement.
... Jesus never did that to his diciples when he was here on earth, so could it be that someone else is confusing spiritual matters to humans?
Christ never confused his disciples. So why dont we just stick to what Christ said and we will be fine. Thats what I have been preaching for almost 6 years on this site. Its people like you Galveston and your ridiculous JW doctrines that cause the confusion. One day you will wake up and realise that.
23 Jul 10
Originally posted by menace71I have read and studied Revelation many many times with out bias and it all is very clear to me as it should be from God's direction. But as you've mentioned in your other post that there are parts you don't understand yourself. Why is that?
I think that there will be an earth and heavens forever but God is going to something there is no doubt. Even if the heavens and earth are destroyed by fire God can put people back together right? This is even by your own beliefs that this is possible. It's a kinda fleshly clinging I see G-75. Absent from the body means present with God. So you believe Rev ...[text shortened]... ones dwelling with God. I challenge you to read Revelation 20 and 21 without bias.
Manny
I've had a very promenate person that had the highest position you could get in his church tell me that he did not conduct sermons from Revelation to his flock because of it's confusion not only to his flock but even to him. Why was that?
23 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Lol.....
Thank you. I like that statement.
Christ never confused his disciples. So why dont we just stick to what Christ said and we will be fine. Thats what I have been preaching for almost 6 years on this site. Its people like you Galveston and your ridiculous JW doctrines that cause the confusion. One day you will wake up and realise that.
23 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75So here we have two people :
I have read and studied Revelation many many times with out bias and it all is very clear to me as it should be from God's direction. But as you've mentioned in your other post that there are parts you don't understand yourself. Why is that?
I've had a very promenate person that had the highest position you could get in his church tell me that he did ...[text shortened]... to his flock because of it's confusion not only to his flock but even to him. Why was that?
1. A guy (the prominent person) who recognises that he does not know.
2. You - who fail to recognise that you do not know.
And I know that you dont understand Revelation. You believe that the JWs are the 144,000, which are the 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. And the JWs are not descendents of Jacob.
People have far more respect for Mr 1.
23 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999You make me feel so good about my beliefs Rajj. Thank you... Matt 24:9. I don't hate you or anything you may believe but your hatred of JW's is extremely clear.
So here we have two people :
1. A guy (the prominent person) to recognises that he does not know.
2. You - who fail to recognise that you do not know.
And I know that you dont understand Revelation. You believe that the JWs are the 144,000, which are the 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. And the JWs are not descendents of Jacob.
People have far more respect for Mr 1.
23 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Sorry to disappoint you. I disagree with the JW doctrine and modus operandi. They are unchristlike separationist hypocrites. The fact that you interpret that to be hatred tells me that you have that childish persecution complex. Its typical JW arrogance to believe that they and they alone are Gods chosen people and everyone who disagrees with them are not part of the kingdom to come.
You make me feel so good about my beliefs Rajj. Thank you... Matt 24:9. I don't hate you or anything you may believe but your hatred of JW's is extremely clear.
You are like a snake with a forked tongue Galveston. Despite your sweet words you believe that I and those like me have no chance at salvation unless we change to JWs.
On the contrary despite my harsh words I can assure you that even though your doctrine is false and you are aligned to a Godless organisation (proof is in the hundreds of false prophesies), you have a wonderful chance of attaining salvation in the kingdom to come. Christ said he will judge every man according to his works. So go preach what Christ said to preach, go do the good works Christ said to do and you will be rewarded .. nothwithstanding your failure to distance yourself from the hopelessly Christless JW organisation.
23 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999As I said..thank you.
Sorry to disappoint you. I disagree with the JW doctrine and modus operandi. They are unchristlike separationist hypocrites. The fact that you interpret that to be hatred tells me that you have that childish persecution complex. Its typical JW arrogance to believe that they and they alone are Gods chosen people and everyone who disagrees with them are not pa ...[text shortened]... thwithstanding your failure to distance yourself from the hopelessly Christless JW organisation.
26 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75I think though hard try reading it as if for the first time. The truth about the 144,000 is still an educated guess. They are called first fruit and God picked them. They are apparently virgins. First fruit means more will follow. They appear to be from the tribes of Israel. There are different interpretations on the book of Revelation and they all have valid points. The book is in the genre of apocalyptic writings no doubt there.
I have read and studied Revelation many many times with out bias and it all is very clear to me as it should be from God's direction. But as you've mentioned in your other post that there are parts you don't understand yourself. Why is that?
I've had a very promenate person that had the highest position you could get in his church tell me that he did ...[text shortened]... to his flock because of it's confusion not only to his flock but even to him. Why was that?
Manny
26 Jul 10
Originally posted by menace71Yes Revelation is hard and it was no doubt written that way for a reason. If it was plane ole black and white then obviously everyone could see exactly what it means and who is who and what is what. But the 144,000 has to mean something or somebody and it's there for a reason. So one should not dismiss anything or any discriptions of who they may be. But in the end they can only be one thing, right? God had that vision seen and had it written down for a reason. And because of it's complexity it could only be found out with God's spirit and direction.
I think though hard try reading it as if for the first time. The truth about the 144,000 is still an educated guess. They are called first fruit and God picked them. They are apparently virgins. First fruit means more will follow. They appear to be from the tribes of Israel. There are different interpretations on the book of Revelation and they all have valid points. The book is in the genre of apocalyptic writings no doubt there.
Manny
"Figurative and Symbolic Use of 1st fruits." From the Ensight book:
Jesus Christ was spiritually begotten at the time of his baptism and was resurrected from the dead to life in the spirit on Nisan 16, 33 C.E., the day of the year on which the firstfruits of the first grain crop were presented before Jehovah at the sanctuary. He is, therefore, called the firstfruits, being actually the first firstfruits to God. (1Co 15:20, 23; 1Pe 3:18) The faithful followers of Jesus Christ, his spiritual brothers, are also a firstfruits to God, but not the primary firstfruits, being similar to the second grain crop, the wheat, which was presented to Jehovah on the day of Pentecost. They number 144,000 and are called the ones “bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb” and “certain firstfruits of his creatures.”—Re 14:1-4; Jas 1:18.
The apostle Paul also speaks of the faithful Jewish remnant who became the first Christians as being “firstfruits.” (Ro 11:16) The Christian Epaenetus is called “a firstfruits of Asia for Christ” (Ro 16:5), and the household of Stephanas “the firstfruits of Achaia.”—1Co 16:15.
Since the anointed Christians are begotten by the spirit as sons of God with the hope of resurrection to immortality in the heavens, they are said during their lifetime on earth to “have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit . . . while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom.” (Ro 8:23, 24) Paul says that he and fellow Christians with hopes of life in the spirit have “the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit,” which he also says is “a token in advance of our inheritance.”—2Co 5:5; Eph 1:13, 14.
27 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Tell us who the 144,000 are? It says they are a 1st fruit to God.
Yes Revelation is hard and it was no doubt written that way for a reason. If it was plane ole black and white then obviously everyone could see exactly what it means and who is who and what is what. But the 144,000 has to mean something or somebody and it's there for a reason. So one should not dismiss anything or any discriptions of who they may be. But ...[text shortened]... rit,” which he also says is “a token in advance of our inheritance.”—2Co 5:5; Eph 1:13, 14.
Manny
27 Jul 10
Originally posted by menace71From last posting: "The faithful followers of Jesus Christ, his spiritual brothers, are also a firstfruits to God, but not the primary firstfruits, being similar to the second grain crop, the wheat, which was presented to Jehovah on the day of Pentecost. They number 144,000 and are called the ones “bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb” and “certain firstfruits of his creatures.”—Re 14:1-4; Jas 1:18."
Tell us who the 144,000 are? It says they are a 1st fruit to God.
Manny
This group of first fruits or 144,000 started with Jesus's apostles and has been picked by God all from that time period until today. The Bible is very clear on the requirements and the heart condition that they would need to have to qualify and then it is up to God who is chosen for this assignment.
So we have no idea whom thru this time period that God has specifcally chosen to be in this group. And as the Bible says, these would know in their hearts that God has chosen them with no doubt at all and would completely understand what this assignment means. And it is not playing harps floating on some cloud...Lol.
27 Jul 10
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75So by your definition these 144,000 are chosen by God. If Chosen by God how or why any man alive this day or in any age would believe they were one of the 144,000 ? I think as soon as a person deemed themselves worthy they would disqualify themselves don't you think?
From last posting: "The faithful followers of Jesus Christ, his spiritual brothers, are also a firstfruits to God, but not the primary firstfruits, being similar to the second grain crop, the wheat, which was presented to Jehovah on the day of Pentecost. They number 144,000 and are called the ones “bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to t rstand what this assignment means. And it is not playing harps floating on some cloud...Lol.
( So we have no idea whom thru this time period that God has specifically chosen to be in this group. your words)
So with all fairness another flaw of the JW's because there are Elders among you that say or believe they are part of the 144,000 right? Yes.
Manny
PS: I agree about the floating around on clouds and playing harps 🙂 How about drinking beer and floating around on clouds? Kidding but I agree.
28 Jul 10
going back to the original question of what is the future of mankind, without being too simplistic we will have to achieve a speed of travel many times the speed of light to be able to transfer ourselves away from earth before the Sun expands and destroys it. There are various opinions as to how long we have got to achieve this but, failing to do so is goodnight vienna!!!
28 Jul 10
Originally posted by brian ashtonThats incorrect. It is perfectly possible to build a starship capable of supporting life entirely on nuclear power. The sun, after all, is simply a very large, very wasteful nuclear power station. It could potentially then travel to other systems at whatever speed we chose - or even simply cruise around in space.
going back to the original question of what is the future of mankind, without being too simplistic we will have to achieve a speed of travel many times the speed of light to be able to transfer ourselves away from earth before the Sun expands and destroys it. There are various opinions as to how long we have got to achieve this but, failing to do so is goodnight vienna!!!
Even with current technology, it is theoretically possible to build a spaceship capable of reaching a nearby star in about 100 years. All that is left is the technology (and money, and motivation) to build one capable of sustaining life for that period. It is likely though that we would first send robotic missions.