24 Feb 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNo one can stand up to Jesus.
I'm glad you recognize the hypocrisy of those who support the ostracization of homosexuals from their church. Yes, they are people. Unfortunately there are many, like W and RC, who seem to see them as less than people and use the Bible as a weapon in furthering their bigotry. Look at how RC keeps trying to justify his position even though it is indefensib ...[text shortened]... s devoid of reason and justice. I have to believe that Jesus would point out their hypocrisy.
"The church", and some of it's members, use a dialog that seems to do more harm than good.
Too often Christians mix and mingle the mindset of the culture with their theology. I expect hatred and violence from the unregenerated, but when folks who should be emulating Jesus look and act like pagans, I begin to wonder why.
I'm guilty of it myself.
There's something extraordinarily spiritual about being a Christian that I think most Christians don't understand. Everything needs to be looked at from an entirely different angle. I don't know how to explain it, but it begins with a good healthy dose of the fear of God.
24 Feb 10
Originally posted by SwissGambitAm I one of the debators on this thread? I think I have learned my lesson.
Many debates between atheists and theists are similarly frustrating. However, it seems like eventually one side or the other is able to give up and walk away at some point. You'd think, if debating him is so frustrating, that you guys would just give up and start ignoring his posts. I've had to do that with certain opponents here - the debates are just so unproductive that they're not worth the time. Why not do the same with ToO?
24 Feb 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneno, persistent and wilful sinners are also removed, in fact, we sadly remove about 40,000 individual per annum, for failing to adhere to the standards that are clearly written in scripture. I know enough about Christ teaching to know that he upheld the Mosiac Law, which condemns homosexuality and please dont try to assert again with your fallacious argument of how he spoke against the law, its been refuted and is nonsense, for clearly you were made to realise, although you were determined not to admit it, thus i took it to the forum and they agreed, that Christ was talking of the Pharisaical interpretation of the Law, not the Law itself.
The point is that you allow others who sin to remain even though they also go against "the revealed word of God". If your church only allowed those who do not sin, then I would have less problem with it. Then at least you wouldn't be a hypocrite, though I'd still think that you understand nothing of the teachings of Jesus.
24 Feb 10
We are all going to hell in a hand basket!! Except the grace of God.
Sin is anything short of God's perfect standard.
I would say to ThinkofOne have you ever lied?
Have you ever stole?
Lusted?
Coveted?
Sins of omission?
Had unrighteous anger?
If you have lived in this world long enough you have sinned in some way. One sin is all it takes to be condemned. So even if you stopped sinning except Christ grace you could be held accountable. I know the Nazarene denomination has a doctrine that says there is a second work of God's grace were they become sanctified and can no longer sin but this just is not reality. Drawing near to God is what will keep you from sinning but technically speaking we are born condemned. So seriously for all of our sakes if you know of some way to stop sinning tell us how.
Manny
24 Feb 10
Originally posted by SwissGambitJust having a bit of fun and trying to get a few laughs along the way. I think people on these boards take themsevlves a little too seriously sometimes.
If this thread is a pro-wrestling match, you're the guy taking cheap shots from outside the ring when the ref isn't looking.
24 Feb 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThis is just not true. I pointed out you were a "liar" when you started lying.
[b]There was a time when we exchanged ideas and thoughts without all this other stuff going on. But even back then you just refused to answer questions and would not debate in a fair and reasonable manner.
I then called you out on this and the "liar" , "dishonest" , "delusional" stuff started to pour out of you.
This is just not true. I pointed ...[text shortened]... nd his insistence on adhering to an irrational belief speaks to delusion.[/b]
-----------ToOne--------------
....and this was when exactly?
As for this thread. You should know (unless you are very naive) that certain amount of vitriole and sarcasm is part of the deal on a forum like this. It's a bit like the house of commons where you see a lot of sarcasm and ripping into each other but it's not meant maliciously. If you look more carefully at my OP you will see that it offers you the opportunity to go on the record. That is also the thread title.
A lot depends on how you define the terms "liar" and "having a go". Liar suggests that I have some underhand plan or something. The thread is what it is. I have pointed out how you come across to me and how you don't answer plain questions and then asked people if it's really worth bothering with you if that's what you are going to do.
I wanted people to challenge you to go on the record (which is happening) so when the subsequent mickey taking intially started I felt a bit nervous about things going off track (as they can do).
The problem is that I know you won't explore this any further because it's your mindset to divide the world up into black and whites with no shades of grey. I am either a liar or a saint in your world. Bad or good. Sinner (damned) or 100% free of sin(saved) etc etc
I said you had a mental fortress around you because I think you have a mental fortress around you. I also think you take yourself too seriously. Maybe if you had a better sense of humour the walls might start to melt a bit?
25 Feb 10
Originally posted by josephwI expect hatred and violence from the unregenerated, but when folks who should be emulating Jesus look and act like pagans, I begin to wonder why.
No one can stand up to Jesus.
"The church", and some of it's members, use a dialog that seems to do more harm than good.
Too often Christians mix and mingle the mindset of the culture with their theology. I expect hatred and violence from the unregenerated, but when folks who should be emulating Jesus look and act like pagans, I begin to wonder why.
...[text shortened]... don't know how to explain it, but it begins with a good healthy dose of the fear of God.
There's something extraordinarily spiritual about being a Christian that I think most Christians don't understand.
Everything needs to be looked at from an entirely different angle.
I don't know how to explain it, but it begins with a good healthy dose of the fear of God.
I'm not sure what you mean by "unregenerated", but I'll assume this is the same as what Jesus termed "born again".
Quite often the correct answer is the simplest answer.
Maybe those who do not emulate Jesus are not yet "born again".
Maybe being "born again" IS looking at everything from that "different angle".
Maybe there is no "dose of fear" simply because they presume that their "salvation" is assured.
25 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieStill leaves you a bigot and hypocrite.
no, persistent and wilful sinners are also removed, in fact, we sadly remove about 40,000 individual per annum, for failing to adhere to the standards that are clearly written in scripture. I know enough about Christ teaching to know that he upheld the Mosiac Law, which condemns homosexuality and please dont try to assert again with your fallacious ...[text shortened]... greed, that Christ was talking of the Pharisaical interpretation of the Law, not the Law itself.
Once again, who are you to judge homosexuals (or anyone else) as being unfit to attend your church because they sin when you yourselves sin and /or allow people with other sins?
25 Feb 10
2 edits
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneActually anyone may visit a Kingdom Hall, but they cannot be a representative of Jehovahs Witnesses, sorry but we have a position of spiritual and moral cleanliness to pertian to. Homosexuality is condemned in scripture, we merely uphold those tenets. Look how it has split the churches of Christendom while we enjoy perfect unity, once again, wisdom if proven righteous by its works. People are removed because they hardened their hearts and will not repent, they thus become wilful sinners, not involuntary ones.
Still leaves you a bigot and hypocrite.
Once again, who are you to judge homosexuals (or anyone else) as being unfit to attend your church because they sin when you yourselves sin and /or allow people with other sins?
25 Feb 10
Originally posted by menace71You seem to be confused about what Jesus taught. From what I can tell, there is no requirement that one has never sinned, just one that one cannot continue to sin and have "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation".
We are all going to hell in a hand basket!! Except the grace of God.
Sin is anything short of God's perfect standard.
I would say to ThinkofOne have you ever lied?
Have you ever stole?
Lusted?
Coveted?
Sins of omission?
Had unrighteous anger?
If you have lived in this world long enough you have sinned in some way. One sin is all it takes to be cond ...[text shortened]... o seriously for all of our sakes if you know of some way to stop sinning tell us how.
Manny
As to how to stop sinning, I think I've already posted this twice on this thread, but this is what Jesus taught:
John 8:32-36
So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free....Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."
The truth will make you free.
25 Feb 10
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterAs best as I can recall, you started lying around the time that you declared that it was your intention to "discredit" me. Which was also around the time that you started stalking me also. Evidently you have placed no bounds on what you are willing to do to fulfill your intention. You just can't seem to live with the fact that my position is fully supported by the explicit teachings of Jesus and yours isn't.
This is just not true. I pointed out you were a "liar" when you started lying.
-----------ToOne--------------
....and this was when exactly?
As for this thread. You should know (unless you are very naive) that certain amount of vitriole and sarcasm is part of the deal on a forum like this. It's a bit like the house of commons where you see a sly. Maybe if you had a better sense of humour the walls might start to melt a bit?
You lie and lie repeatedly. This makes you a liar. Don't know what's so difficult for you to understand.
Your attempts to downplay your intentions for starting this thread is pathetic. It's obviously a continuation of your vendetta, regardless of your attempts to try to cast it in a different light.
Once again:
Are you going to ignore this earlier post? Why is it when there's a chance to get down to brass tacks, you have nothing to say? Your usual tack is to ask irrelevant questions and the cry foul when I call them irrelevant.[/quote]
[quote]Did you get past the first sentence?
I'll rephrase it in case you were unable to comprehend my prior post. This is the spirituality forum. People express their views on spiritual matters. Sometimes people are going to express views on spiritual matters that don't coincide with your own. They are not "stalking your beliefs". They are using the forum as intended.
The fact is that no human being is perfect and all are flawed and subject to lapses and sinful behaviour. The real Jesus is much more patient with us than this and has immense compassion for our failings.
If this was so important to the teachings of Jesus, you should have no problem producing passages from when He walked the Earth and taught something akin to, "I have spoken at length as to what is and what is not righteous. However, this is impossible to achieve. You are all flawed and subject to lapses and sinful behavior. With this in mind and because of my patience and immense compassion for your failings, everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; even those who do not do the will of my Father who is in heaven."
This is your chance to show how your understanding of Jesus is fully supported by His teachings. After you've posted them all, I can repost the passages of His teachings that support my position. Maybe we can then work on reconciling them together.
If you have something of substance to show then show it. If not, then stop this ridiculous vendetta.
25 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOkay, I'll rephrase the question:
Actually anyone may visit a Kingdom Hall, but they cannot be a representative of Jehovahs Witnesses, sorry but we have a position of spiritual and moral cleanliness to pertian to. Homosexuality is condemned in scripture, we merely uphold those tenets. Look how it has split the churches of Christendom while we enjoy perfect unity, once again, wisdom ...[text shortened]... ardened their hearts and will not repent, they thus become wilful sinners, not involuntary ones.
Who are you to judge homosexuals (or anyone else) as being unfit to be members of your church because they sin when you yourselves sin and /or allow people with other sins?
Your position of "spiritual and moral cleanliness" isn't so clean if you continue to sin, is it?
You're simply a bigot and hypocrite.