God made everything

Originally posted by @romans1009
I’m not sure the doctrine of election, or predestination, is correct for everyone.
...


If God knows ahead of time who will choose to believe in Him, and more specifically Jesus Christ’s Resurrection, He is not determining who is damned and who isn’t - He just knows ahead of time who will choose to believe and who won’t.[/b]

Double standard?

If an unknown man in Siberia heard you were going to the grocery store and wrote down everything you were going to buy on a piece of paper before you got there, did that interfere with your decisions of what to buy?

Was I able to choose alternate selections? Then obviously I could prove that siberian wrong.

Originally posted by @vivify
Virginity: Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Gays: Leviticus 20:12-13

Rape: Deuteronomy 28:15-30

15"if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

20The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand ...[text shortened]... /b]

That's a long list of evil threatened by your God; and that's not even all of it.

I’ll check out the verses in the KJV and get back to you. Thanks for citing the references.

Originally posted by @apathist
Double standard?

If an unknown man in Siberia heard you were going to the grocery store and wrote down everything you were going to buy on a piece of paper before you got there, did that interfere with your decisions of what to buy?

Was I able to choose alternate selections? Then obviously I [b]could prove that siberian wrong.[/b]

How is that a double standard?

You think foreknowledge negates free will?

Originally posted by @romans1009
I’ll check out the verses in the KJV and get back to you. Thanks for citing the references.

Are you going to check out Nolsey first, like you said you would?

I'd love your feedback

Originally posted by @vivify
Virginity: Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Gays: Leviticus 20:12-13

Rape: Deuteronomy 28:15-30

15"if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

20The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand ...[text shortened]... /b]

That's a long list of evil threatened by your God; and that's not even all of it.

You neglected to post the first half of the chapter, in which God spoke of the blessings the Jewish people would receive if they obeyed His commandments. But before I post that, rape is nowhere mentioned in the King James Version of the passage you cited. What translation did your excerpt come from?

Here are the blessings God said would come if the Jews obeyed His Commandments:

“And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.

Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.

Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.

Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

The Lord shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.

The Lord shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.

And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee.

And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.”

(Deuteronomy 28:1-14)

When you consider that the Jews were God’s chosen people and therefore His children and an essential part of His plan to save humans from themselves - and that disobeying God’s commandments would carry spiritual and eternal consequences - God is simply warning the Jews, much as a father would warn his children, of the consequences of doing wrong.

You can see that as evil; I see it as a big warning sign with flashing lights.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
Are you going to check out Nolsey first, like you said you would?

I'd love your feedback

Another broken promise ??

I guess they're made to be broken (emoji going from dissapointed to a slight smile )

Originally posted by @romans1009
You neglected to post the first half of the chapter, in which God spoke of the blessings the Jewish people would receive if they obeyed His commandments. But before I post that, rape is nowhere mentioned in the King James Version of the passage you cited. What translation did your excerpt come from?

Here are the blessings God said would come if the Je ...[text shortened]... f doing wrong.

You can see that as evil; I see it as a big warning sign with flashing lights.

a) That version was the NIV; the New American Standard version says "You shall betroth a wife, but another man will violate her". The New English Translation also uses the word "rape".

Here's a direct translation from the Hebrew version of the bible:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/deu28.pdf

The translation for the original Hebrew is "ravish". Google that word and the first definition you'll see is "seize and carry off (someone) by force.". The NIV, NET and New American Standard use the word "rape", because that's clearly implied.


b) As for the rest of your post: does promising rewards for obedience negate all the horrors God will personally deliver if they're not?
Is it okay to beat my wife into submission if she's "disobedient" but lavish her with gifts if she obeys?

The fact that God promised good things if the people obey him is irrelevant. The LONG list of evil things he promised to personally inflict is the problem. People like you are the reason why spousal abuse and rape get blamed on the victim: "If only she obeyed him or followed the rules...."

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
Another broken promise ??

I guess they're made to be broken (emoji going from dissapointed to a slight smile )

You have an odd definition of “promise.”

Originally posted by @vivify
a) That version was the NIV; the New American Standard version says "You shall betroth a wife, but another man will violate her". The New English Translation also uses the word "rape".

Here's a direct translation from the Hebrew version of the bible:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/deu28.pdf

The translation for the original He ...[text shortened]... usal abuse and rape get blamed on the victim: "If only she obeyed him or followed the rules...."

That’s a ridiculous stretch. And as I said before, when not following God’s commands will result in dire and eternal consequences not just for the individual but for a large group of people, His warning imo is fully justified.

To equate that to a wife disregarding her husband is laughably ridiculous.

Originally posted by @vivify
a) That version was the NIV; the New American Standard version says "You shall betroth a wife, but another man will violate her". The New English Translation also uses the word "rape".

Here's a direct translation from the Hebrew version of the bible:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/deu28.pdf

The translation for the original He ...[text shortened]... usal abuse and rape get blamed on the victim: "If only she obeyed him or followed the rules...."

BTW, the KJV, imo, is the best translation.

Originally posted by @romans1009
That’s a ridiculous stretch. And as I said before, when not following God’s commands will result in dire and eternal consequences not just for the individual but for a large group of people, His warning imo is fully justified.

To equate that to a wife disregarding her husband is laughably ridiculous.

God is warning in "dire and eternal" consequences that God himself will cause. In other words, it's a threat. It's not different from a man threatening to beat his wife if she doesn't obey him. Actually, God's threats are much worse.

Originally posted by @vivify
God is warning in "dire and eternal" consequences that God himself will cause. In other words, it's a threat. It's not different from a man threatening to beat his wife if she doesn't obey him. Actually, God's threats are much worse.

No, dire and eternal consequences that the individuals themselves will cause - and not just for themselves but other people.

If an individual kills someone and is sentenced to life in prison, did the judge cause his lengthy prison sentence?