09 Jan 11
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomIf memory serves, the Scientologists have some song and dance about coming from aliens. You may want to check that out, however, make sure you have some money in the bank if you do because they will be after you to give them your money for "instructional classes".
some of you may remember me from a very long time ago and i was a closed minded christian. i was very naive; i didn't even consider that my religion could be wrong and that islam or judaism or anything else could have been the true religion of god. now i have explored other religions and i have found that all religions can coexist without contradiction ...[text shortened]... e. they are all names for the same thing: aliens. and they created us. for what purpose, idk.
I also remember a cult about Hale Bop. Does anyone remember? I think their leader said to drink some poison and they would all be magically transmitted to a space ship where aliens were waiting for them. Of course, if you choose this route my only words of adivce are, "Don't drink the coolaide!!" 😛
09 Jan 11
Originally posted by utherpendragonI find it somewhat amusing that certain theists (you included) will belittle far fetched claims that contrast with their own equally far fetched claims! Neither side having any more justification than the other.
So you "were" a Christian and gave it all up after a single semester of world religions in college and watching Ancient Aliens on the History channel and came to the conclusion that their is no Christ and God is a eternal space traveler from another planet.
As far as Aliens (if there are any) travelling "past the speed of light" is pure speculation ...[text shortened]... sort of material would their little ships be made out of that could with stand those speeds?
We atheists are often under fire for retaining a closed mind but at least we're consistent!
09 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agerg"I find it somewhat amusing that certain theists (you included) will belittle far fetched claims that contrast with their own equally far fetched claims!"
I find it somewhat amusing that certain theists (you included) will belittle far fetched claims that contrast with their own equally far fetched claims! Neither side having any more justification than the other.
We atheists are often under fire for retaining a closed mind but at least we're consistent!
Atheism=There is no God.
Theism=There is a God.
About as far fetched as it gets.
Atheism makes no claim as to the origin of life, nor can it by virtue of it's definition.
But Theism claims that God is the originator of life and has the universe as evidence.
I try to keep it simple.
09 Jan 11
3 edits
Originally posted by josephwWell *certain* theists (such as yourself) don't keep things so simple as you suggest.
[b]"I find it somewhat amusing that certain theists (you included) will belittle far fetched claims that contrast with their own equally far fetched claims!"
Atheism=There is no God.
Theism=There is a God.
About as far fetched as it gets.
Atheism makes no claim as to the origin of life, nor can it by virtue of it's definition.
But Theism ...[text shortened]... t God is the originator of life and has the universe as evidence.
I try to keep it simple.[/b]
Your god is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omni-loving sage in the sky who created an entire universe with just a hint of twinkle dust and it's will. A god that keeps it's beady eye on us humans at all times, likes to perform miracles, demands blood tribute for people doing things it doesn't like; and the one of the bloodiest of such tributes was to pay for the heinous crime of eating a naughty fruit in some "Garden of Eden" 6000 years ago. It will send anyone who fails to believe in it to Hell for ever and ever and ever and ever and... still it loves us all equally and maximally!
Doesn't seem very simple to me...looks like a real pot of absurdity 😕
Also, you've been told countless times atheists assert they don't believe in god, they don't assert there is no god. Similarly, bearing the name theist does not mean you hate blood transfusions so strongly as your JW colleagues.
09 Jan 11
Originally posted by AgergFor someone who doesn't believe in the existence of God you sure know how to define Him.
Well *certain* theists (such as yourself) don't keep things so simple as you suggest.
Your god is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omni-loving sage in the sky who created an entire universe with just a hint of twinkle dust and it's will. A god that keeps it's beady eye on us humans at all times, likes to perform miracles, demands blood tribute for pe ...[text shortened]... me theist does not mean you hate blood transfusions so strongly as your JW colleagues.
I realise you are confused about God. Who wouldn't be given all the confusion about God.
Most folks you'll talk to who claim to "know" God are as confused about God as you are.
But what confuses me the most is how folks like you fall for the deception. You haven't an original idea about God in your head, only ideas you've adopted from others.
Not an insult.
09 Jan 11
3 edits
Originally posted by josephwWhy should I require my own ideas about *your* god or any other magic entity??? It would be hypocritical of myself to challenge your ideas whilst holding equally implausible and unsubstantiated ideas of my own.
For someone who doesn't believe in the existence of God you sure know how to define Him.
I realise you are confused about God. Who wouldn't be given all the confusion about God.
Most folks you'll talk to who claim to "know" God are as confused about God as you are.
But what confuses me the most is how folks like you fall for the deception. You have nal idea about God in your head, only ideas you've adopted from others.
Not an insult.
I'm quite content to let you guys throw the ball before I hit it.
09 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agerg"Why should I require my own ideas about *your* god or any other magic entity???"
Why should I require my own ideas about *your* god or any other magic entity??? It would be hypocritical of myself to challenge your ideas whilst holding equally implausible and unsubstantiated ideas of my own.
I'm quite content to let you guys throw the ball before I hit it.
You shouldn't. God, if He exists, wouldn't be something one gets an idea about arbitrarily. Would you not then agree that any idea about God would of necessity have to originate with God Himself?
"It would be hypocritical of myself to challenge your ideas whilst holding equally implausible and unsubstantiated ideas of my own."
An honest answer. What then substantiates an idea? Would it not be evidence? I think we can agree on that, but then we would have to agree on what constitutes evidence.
"I'm quite content to let you guys throw the ball before I hit it."
That's fine with me. I would be only too pleased to present my case for the existence of a Creator/God, and the case that He is a loving and benevolent Father to all who come to Him by faith.
09 Jan 11
2 edits
Originally posted by josephw
"Why should I require my own ideas about *your* god or any other magic entity???"
You shouldn't. God, if He exists, wouldn't be something one gets an idea about arbitrarily. Would you not then agree that any idea about God would of necessity have to originate with God Himself?
"It would be hypocritical of myself to challenge your ideas whils nd the case that He is a loving and benevolent Father to all who come to Him by faith.
You shouldn't. God, if He exists, wouldn't be something one gets an idea about arbitrarily. Would you not then agree that any idea about God would of necessity have to originate with God Himself?
There would be no way to establish such ideas came from your god with any more validity than such ideas came from Hagadeshk the custard creator fairy who accidentally made our universe whilst playing Ludo with it's magic friend Blugvhah the ballet-dancing planet eater.
An honest answer. What then substantiates an idea? Would it not be evidence? I think we can agree on that, but then we would have to agree on what constitutes evidence.
All assumptions should be first well defined, well justified and within the boundaries of their scope, be consistent with all available data before forming any conclusions. Reading some "holy book" and adopting the beliefs of your pastors/peers doesn't cut it.
That's fine with me. I would be only too pleased to present my case for the existence of a Creator/God, and the case that He is a loving and benevolent Father to all who come to Him by faith.
No need...I'm familiar with many arguments for why believe in God or gods (or alien creators even); I've also heard yours.
09 Jan 11
Originally posted by utherpendragonidt i ever really was a christian. i still call myself a christian when people ask me what my beliefs are just because. ive always had these ideas in my head, i just never put them into words or knew it exactly until i found out there were other people who believe in a common ancestor of all religions. when i found out that all religions could coexist, then i realised that is what i believed all along. some religions dont define their beliefs until they find something else that contradicts their belief; they just know it and believe it in their head but never have the need to define it until they see an opposing view. ufo sightings are real and there are credible sources that say so, not just hillbillies. the british government even admits to it.
So you "were" a Christian and gave it all up after a single semester of world religions in college and watching Ancient Aliens on the History channel and came to the conclusion that their is no Christ and God is a eternal space traveler from another planet.
As far as Aliens (if there are any) travelling "past the speed of light" is pure speculation ...[text shortened]... sort of material would their little ships be made out of that could with stand those speeds?
09 Jan 11
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomI'd be interested in looking over your sources for "british government even admits to it.".
idt i ever really was a christian. i still call myself a christian when people ask me what my beliefs are just because. ive always had these ideas in my head, i just never put them into words or knew it exactly until i found out there were other people who believe in a common ancestor of all religions. when i found out that all religions could coexist, ...[text shortened]... re credible sources that say so, not just hillbillies. the british government even admits to it.
All the "UFO"s I've seen (in 'photographs'😉 look like desk lampshades or Fray Bentos tins.
09 Jan 11
Originally posted by josephwdont misunderstand me, im still all about god. i just have a different understanding of god. i thought god was a shapeless being that you could not describe or even begin to fathom. i thought he was one of a kind and i thought he was magical and miraculous. now i believe he is not miraculous, but he is technological and it makes him seem miraculous. i also dont believe he is one being, i believe he is a whole race of beings or perhaps just the leader of his race. he supposedly sees and hears everything and he is supposedly everywhere but really he is not. "he", or the alien race is constantly observing us but they do not see every little detail. that is why adam was able to hide from god behind a bush. if god were literally everywhere, he wouldve seen him behind the bush and he wouldve already known he had eaten from the wrong tree. i do believe jesus came and died for our sins; i do not believe that mary had a baby without any sperm of any kind. it is possible that "god" or the alien race could have injected sperm into her much like we do today with sperm doners. it is also possible that an alien had sex with her and made a sort of demigod and created the "son of god". many civilizations like the mayans and the egyptians claimed to have a direct heir from god as their leader. i believe most of what is taught in most religions; i just attribute them to aliens in a scientific manner. there are no miracles; there is only technology. a 90 degree turn at almost light speed without slowing down does appear to be miraculous but it is just really advanced technology
Thinkin' about you just the other day. I was going to check your profile to see if you were still active. Glad you're back, but...
I remember when you weren't a Christian. Then you were gone for a while and came back gung ho for God. Now you're back with aliens. 🙄
Turn off the TV, go outside and look into the sky. Nope, no aliens. It's all pure circum ...[text shortened]... cross, and was resurrected? If so, then I don't care if you think there are aliens or not!
09 Jan 11
furthermore, for anyone laughing at my beliefs, especially theists who believe in magic and miracles, i believe in purely scientific explanations of religion. they are theories that can not be proven, but there can be evidence provided to support my claims much like gravity. god is an alien; probability shows that there MUST be life somewhere on another planet in the universe. aliens created the organisms on our world as well as humans and we are their favorite creation and have dominion over the animals; this is not much of a stretch, it is just genetic engineering. aliens put adam to sleep and removed his rib; this is anestheseology and we can do this today. aliens created eve from adams rib; this is nothing more than cloning which we can do today. mary was inpregnated either by an alien or by injection of sperm; similar organisms can have sterile offspring such as a horse and a donkey or a tiger and a lion and we also do sperm donations today. jesus was possibly half human and have alien; we see accounts of demigods in many religions. at least my beliefs can be explained in a scientific matter that doesnt require magic or miracles and they have evidence to SUPPORT them although they are not proven facts. it is a theory just like the big bang or evolution with evidence to support them but no way of proving them to be true and scientists believe those theories so why cant the theory of aliens be plausible?
09 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agerg"There would be no way to establish such ideas came from your god with any more validity than such ideas came from Hagadeshk the custard creator fairy who accidentally made our universe whilst playing Ludo with it's magic friend Blugvhah the ballet-dancing planet eater."
[b]
You shouldn't. God, if He exists, wouldn't be something one gets an idea about arbitrarily. Would you not then agree that any idea about God would of necessity have to originate with God Himself?
There would be no way to establish such ideas came from your god with any more validity than such ideas came from Hagadeshk the custard creator fairy who ac ...[text shortened]... guments for why believe in God or gods (or alien creators even); I've also heard yours.[/b]
Most folks say the same thing. They make up their mind that "there's no way", and shut down intellectually.
That there is a Creator/God is evident in all that exists. The idea that what exists is not evidence for a Creator/God obviously didn't come from God. That idea originated in the mind of man. Just as all myths and fables do. But the idea of a Creator/God didn't originate in the mind of man contrary to popular belief. How could it?
"All assumptions should be first well defined, well justified and within the boundaries of their scope, be consistent with all available data before forming any conclusions. Reading some "holy book" and adopting the beliefs of your pastors/peers doesn't cut it."
Assuming there is no Creator/God, and that the origin of the universe is beyond knowing, and that evolution is the explanation for our current state, then how did man develop a creative imagination that leads him into delusion?
"No need...I'm familiar with many arguments for why believe in God or gods (or alien creators even); I've also heard yours".
But you just got done saying that you prefer to let someone else throw the ball and that you'd hit it!
I'm simply trying to have a reasoned discussion. With some in here it's impossible.
You seem to be rational Agerg. Don't you think it's more rational to be agnostic than outright atheistic?
Rationally, logically, the lack of evidence is not evidence for the non-existence of anything.