Hardening of heart.

Originally posted by @eladar
Thanks for the antichristian perspective.

I'm just waiting for you to tender a Christian one.

Nothing so far.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I'm just waiting for you to tender a Christian one.

Nothing so far.

How would an antichristian know a chrisian response if he saw one?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Yes, you would do well looking at scripture, all of scripture instead of one verse to pin your
whole belief system on.

You would do well reading all scripture and not making faulty assumptions. You only have implication based on assumption to say that God did not really hate Esau before Esau was born.

Originally posted by @suzianne
You are as lazy as your lazy theology.

Looking for reasons you can claim that your fate is not your fault.

This is Calvinism at its worst.

When did I ever say a person is not at fault for a person's fate?

You are applying human logic here. But hey, I can see why a child of Satan would make such a claim.

Originally posted by @eladar
When did I ever say a person is not at fault for a person's fate?

You are applying human logic here. But hey, I can see why a child of Satan would make such a claim.

You are saying God takes away all human ability to do other than what God has already
selected, then be condemn or justified, without any ability to change the preordained
outcome regardless of their will or desire.

If your doctrine were true why would God tell us to do meaningless things?


Luke 13:22-24English Standard Version (ESV)
22 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Why strive, if it is already closed to all?

Luke 15:7
Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Why would anyone rejoice over those who had no choice, but to do what was already
told they would do, without the ability to do otherwise?

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Why would the Father and Jesus lie and not just go along with your doctrine instead,
if Jesus says it is the will of the Father to who looks on the Son and believes in Him
would have eternal life and be raised on the last day ? Why didn't Jesus say no one has
a choice like you are doing and they will pick their favorites?

Galatians 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Why give commandments to act properly, if no one chosen could do otherwise?

James 5:20
let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Why would there be any concern about winning sinners if only God's hand pick will make
it, what would be the big deal?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Why would Jesus lie? If we were chosen not allowed to pick, and say whosoever believeth
in Him should not perish if whatever a human does is meaningless?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You are saying God takes away all human ability to do other than what God has already
selected, then be condemn or justified, without any ability to change the preordained
outcome regardless of their will or desire.

If your doctrine were true why would God tell us to do meaningless things?


Luke 13:22-24English Standard Version (ESV)
22 He went o ...[text shortened]... , and say whosoever believeth
in Him should not perish if whatever a human does is meaningless?

You are using human logic.

Following God's commands is not meaningless even if God would predestine that one follow them.

Why strive? To carry out God's will.

They rejoice because God's will is being carried out.

Once again it is God's will that salvation comes through Jesus.

By the way, it is not my doctrine. This is Paul's doctrine as put forth in Romans 9.

Originally posted by @eladar
You are using human logic.

Following God's commands is not meaningless even if God would predestine that one follow them.

Why strive? To carry out God's will.

They rejoice because God's will is being carried out.

Once again it is God's will that salvation comes through Jesus.

By the way, it is not my doctrine. This is Paul's doctrine as put forth in Romans 9.

They rejoice because God's will is being carried out.
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Yes, but it says that they rejoice over the repenting sinner.
The repenting sinner is God's will and reason for the angelic joy.

Luke 15:7
Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Kelly's logic seems sound to me.
It is human logic which is also according to God's revelation.

Ninty-nine righteous persons is also God's will.
Which caused more joy ?

Originally posted by @sonship
[b] They rejoice because God's will is being carried out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, but it says that they rejoice over the repenting sinner.
The repenting sinner is God's will and reason for the angelic joy.

Kelly's logic seems sound to me.
It is human logic which is also according to God's revelation.[/b]

Is it God's will that the sinner repent? You assume not. Paul states otherwise.

It doesn't matter how many repent. All that matters is that God's will is fulfilled.

Originally posted by @eladar
Is it God's will that the sinner repent? You assume not. Paul states otherwise.

That comment does not yet make any sense to me.

Why do you say I assume NOT - that God wills that the sinner repent ?

Originally posted by @eladar
Is it God's will that the sinner repent? You assume not. Paul states otherwise.

It doesn't matter how many repent. All that matters is that God's will is fulfilled.

Is it God's will that the sinner repent? You assume not. Paul states otherwise.

It doesn't matter how many repent. All that matters is that God's will is fulfilled.

Why did Jesus say it caused more joy for the one sinner to repent ?
His will is surely that there be ninety-nine that do not need to.

Are you saying the angels rejoiced more in what was not God's will there ?

Originally posted by @sonship
That comment does not yet make any sense to me.

Why do you say I assume NOT - that God wills that the sinner repent ?

Because you used it as a counter to what I said about God's will earlier.

Salvation is simply a noble man fulfilling God's plan.

Originally posted by @eladar
Because you used it as a counter to what I said about God's will earlier.

Salvation is simply a noble man fulfilling God's plan.

Salvation is simply a noble man fulfilling God's plan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would say that there is only ONE "noble man" - Jesus the Son of God.
He is the only one absolute for the will of the Father.

Salvation is being put into Him and being identified with Him.
Salvation is Jesus Christ coming to live within us in His form as "life giving Spirit"

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45a)

He gives divine life.
He gives to man God - as divine life to live by.

The repentant sinner is made the righteousness of God in Him.

" Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor. 5:21)

I will stand before God and say "God, I stand before you clothed in Jesus Christ, my only nobility, my only righteousness."

Originally posted by @sonship
[b] Salvation is simply a noble man fulfilling God's plan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would say that there is only ONE "noble man" - Jesus the Son of God.
He is the only one absolute for the will of the Father.

Salvation is being put into Him and being identified with Him.
Salvation is Jesus ...[text shortened]... tand before you clothed in Christ Jesus, my only nobility, my only righteousness."[/b]

What you say is meaningless. You could be just like all the others who proclaim Jesus as lord but get rejected.

Originally posted by @eladar
What you say is meaningless. You could be just like all the others who proclaim Jesus as lord but get rejected.

Which is meaningless - 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 5:21; or was it Luke 15: 7 ?

Or is the confession that I stand before God clothed in Christ as my only righteousness meaningless ?

Originally posted by @sonship
Which is meaningless - [b]1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 5:21; or was it Luke 15: 7 ?

Or is the confession that I stand before God clothed in Christ as my only righteousness meaningless ?[/b]

Your personal proclamation.