09 Jul 09
Originally posted by jaywillThanks for the book advice.
You could benefit by reading -
[b] "The Twofoldness of Divine Truth" By Robert Govette.
Or consider Ralph Waldo Emerson's famous quip -
" A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. "
The Bible is profound and some paradoxes are there. Joke seems to be on you.[/b]
Why is the joke on me?
09 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Proper KnobBecasue both Govett's classic book and even Emerson's observation confirm my opinion that -
Thanks for the book advice.
Why is the joke on me?
"The paradoxes in Scripture are often a test to the faith of the hearer of God's word. "
Which comment you discribed a "pure comic genius".
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by jaywillNo problem.
Becasue both Govett's classic book and even Emerson's observation confirm my opinion that -
[b]
"The paradoxes in Scripture are often a test to the faith of the hearer of God's word. "
Which comment you discribed a "pure comic genius".
Looks like a case of "open mouth change feet". Quite funny actually. Thanks. I could use a lighter moment this morning.[/b]
"The paradoxes in Scripture are often a test to the faith of the hearer of God's word. "
That made my morning also.
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by Proper KnobGovette's book has some excellent examples. I think the idea is that the Bible is not there just to give objective information but to cause man to touch the living God.
No problem.
[b]
"The paradoxes in Scripture are often a test to the faith of the hearer of God's word. "
That made my morning also.[/b]
Collecting objective facts without touching the living Spirit of God behind to book often frustrates man's natural intellect.
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobiei hardly think so, can you imagine the early Christians, who were initially proselytes from Judaism accepting anything other than a strictly monotheistic approach, no neither can i.
Yes, I can most certainly imagine it! This is no more weird than a virgin birth or a resurrection!
.......Christ who on each and every instance declared that he was subservient to God
I really resisted getting into scriptures, but I cannot let this go by. No verses, just quoting from memory:
He that has seen the Father, has seen me!
I and the Father are one!
And the reason for his crucifiction: his accusers said he made himself equal with God - and he did not deny it!
I write this against my better judgement, knowing full well that you will have some answer. I will not respond any further. Promise...
09 Jul 09
2 edits
Originally posted by Proper KnobFirst, an apology. My conscience bothers me for saying that I laughed at you. That was not kind and it was not really true.
[b] to touch the living God and the living Spirit of God
How would you go about doing that?[/b]
Forgive me please.
Now as to how one can contact the living God.
You have an organ for seeing.
You have an organ for hearing.
You have an organ for smelling.
This is in the physical realm.
Spiritually man has an "organ" for substantiating God.
Just as you cannot smell with your ears or hear with your tongue so one must learn to use the proper part of his being to contact God.
That is the human spirit, the innermost part of a man. It is deeper than the mind and deeper than the soul.
A particular passage which teaches us that there is a human spirit in addition to a human soul is 1 Thess 5:23
"And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
If you noticed there - "spirit and soul and body".
We have something deep within our being called a human spirit. It is part of us. It is distinct from our soul. And it is that "organ" which can touch God. The mind (which is in the soul) is needed to help us interpret what we have touched. But it is this innermost part of our being, the human spirit, that we use to taste and touch God the Spirit.
When we are born again the two spirits (ours and God's) unite and mingle as "one spirit".
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)
This means that the two, the human and the divine, have mingled and blended together within man. This blending of the capital S Spirit of God with the small s spirit of man is a new birth of the man.
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)
Notice the capital S for the Spirit which is God and the small s for the innermost kernel of man, the human spirit. The union of the Spirit which is God with the human spirit deep in man causes a new birth, a spiritual birth and the human spirit and the Holy Spirit which is God become one united and blended spirit - "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit"
Everybody has a human spirit. We need to learn to use it. We can learn to use it by prayer.
09 Jul 09
1 edit
We were talking about the Harlot. Now I am writing something about the human spirit.
Is there a connection? Yes.
Four times in the book of Revelation John says that he was in spirit. Four visions he relates to us were seen when he was "in spirit".
One of the four visions was the Harlot:
"And he carried me away in spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet beast ..." (Rev. 17:3)
This really means that these visions must be understood in an atmosphere prayer and the excercise of the regenerated human spirit. I would advize one to pray over the book of Revelation.
Only our human spirit can adaquately respond to the Spirit of God to see the revelation of God. The four instances where John says he was in spirit are:
1.) The local churches (chapters 1 - 3)
2.) The vision of the destiny of the world (chapters 4 - 16).
3.) The vision of Babylon the Great (chapters 17-20).
4.) The vision of the New Jerusalem as the climax of human history and the culmination of the whole Bible (chapters 21,22).
Seeing the nature of these matters is a result of being in spirit, ie. in prayer contacting the Spirit of God.
09 Jul 09
1 edit
""""As long as "Jehovah's Witnesses" think they are doing Jehovah some kind of favor by putting down Jesus so they can supposedly uplift Jehovah, they are in abject darkness. And when the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness. And I am not trying to be mean. But I am being honest, faithful, and frank with you."""""
Your still not getting it. We would never "put down" either one or show disrespect to either. I don't know where you get that thought. It's your confusion of Jehovah and Jesus that must make you feel that way.
As long as you continue to let yourself be misguided by old school beliefs you will no doubt remain confused. The Trinity is a pagan belief with pagan origins. You know it's so but refuse to admit it as it would completely destroy your ideals.
The Witnesses learned that it was a pagan teaching many decades ago and had the courage to never let that in their beliefs. Because of that many old school religions are still fooled by this pagan belief and hate the Witnesses for exposing them.
09 Jul 09
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75=============================
""""As long as "Jehovah's Witnesses" think they are doing Jehovah some kind of favor by putting down Jesus so they can supposedly uplift Jehovah, they are in abject darkness. And when the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness. And I am not trying to be mean. But I am being honest, faithful, and frank with you."""""
Your still not gettin are still fooled by this pagan belief and hate the Witnesses for exposing them.
Your still not getting it. We would never "put down" either one or show disrespect to either. I don't know where you get that thought. It's your confusion of Jehovah and Jesus that must make you feel that way.
As long as you continue to let yourself be misguided by old school beliefs you will no doubt remain confused. The Trinity is a pagan belief with pagan origins. You know it's so but refuse to admit it as it would completely destroy your ideals.
=================================
This is delusional.
Do you actually think you can "destroy" my experience ?
And it is news to me that the Trinity is a pagan belief pre-dating the Gospel. Polytheism and the revelation of the Triune God according to the pure word of God share nothing in common.
And just the other week I told a JW who approached my car "My God is the Man Jesus".
His response was "What about His Father?" To his mind for me to say that my God was the Man Jesus was some kind of affront made to the Father. But the Son given is called Eternal Father. It is Wonderful and I believe the Bible and my experience.
You will have to work terribly hard to "destroy" this Mr. Jehovah's Witness. I don't think you can ever destroy that Christ is in me and that the Father is in me. One being in me is the Other being in me. I have no fear that you can destroy the testimony within me nor the revelation in the Bible. Sorry.
The problem we are going to have here is endless. I think the list of comparisons between YHWH and Jesus which I gave many posts back was really the closing of the case on Christ being God incarnate.
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by jaywillOuch..touched a nerve did we??? Well hopefully after you do the research that clearly shows where the pagan teachings of the trinity came from "Babylon " you'll think about it a little more.... By the way, the word TRINITY is not in the Bible, anywhere!!!!
[b]=============================
Your still not getting it. We would never "put down" either one or show disrespect to either. I don't know where you get that thought. It's your confusion of Jehovah and Jesus that must make you feel that way.
As long as you continue to let yourself be misguided by old school beliefs you will no doubt remain confused. ...[text shortened]... many posts back was really the closing of the case on Christ being God incarnate.
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by galveston75========================
Ouch..touched a nerve did we??? Well hopefully after you do the research that clearly shows where the pagan teachings of the trinity came from "Babylon " you'll think about it a little more.... By the way, the word TRINITY is not in the Bible, anywhere!!!!
Ouch..touched a nerve did we???
==============================
What are you doing, trying to pretend that you scored some good point?
Give me a break! Your arguments are getting weaker not stronger.
========================
Well hopefully after you do the research that clearly shows where the pagan teachings of the trinity came from "Babylon " you'll think about it a little more.... By the way, the word TRINITY is not in the Bible, anywhere!!!!
================================
Sigh. I know you cannot find "trinity" the word in the Bible.
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by jaywillYour just mad because a JW showed you a scripture you didn't know existed and one you didn't have an answer for and one that makes two of your beliefs look really bad..... 1Cor 15: 24 - 28.
[b]========================
Ouch..touched a nerve did we???
==============================
What are you doing, trying to pretend that you scored some good point?
Give me a break! Your arguments are getting weaker not stronger.
========================
Well hopefully after you do the research that clearly shows where the pagan ...[text shortened]... ====================
Sigh. I know you cannot find "trinity" the word in the Bible.[/b]
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by galveston75=============================
Your just mad because a JW showed you a scripture you didn't know existed and one you didn't have an answer for and one that makes two of your beliefs look really bad..... 1Cor 15: 24 - 28.
Your just mad because a JW showed you a scripture you didn't know existed and one you didn't have an answer for and one that makes two of your beliefs look really bad..... 1Cor 15: 24 - 28.
=====================================
Galveston, I will grant you that we had no really long discussion of that passage as it may merit. After all we are writing posts here and not books.
But I assure you, I would not have 1 Cor. 15:24-28 removed from the Bible for anything. I love it.
My point was that I believe both the Daniel and Isaiah passages with the Corinthian one too.
I do not mind going back and re-examining a passage. I wish you would do the same with the Daniel and the Isaiah.
It is obvious there that the God-man, the Son of Man has an eternal government. Whatever 1 Cor. 15 teaches it cannot make the other passages NOT TRUE. And vica versa.
But if you really think that I have not adaquately dealt with the Corinthian passage, I do not shy away from a challenge. Do you want me to elaborate on it specifically more ?