Originally posted by jaywillYes I reading but not fully understanding. Give me some time.
I SAID He - Christ Jesus is GOD/MAN.
He is God united with man to be one Person.
But while Im doing that bear in mind that my next question is going to be : What what God's purpose or eternal purpose before he created man ... nothing?
Originally posted by jaywillGod is accomplishing his eternal purpose through Christ.
Huh?
There is something called [b]" the eternal purpose " (Eph. 3:11)
Who made it ? God made it.
Where did God make it?
He made it in Christ Jesus our Lord.
" ... the eternal purpose which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Christ is the realm in which the purpose was made. Christ is the sphere in which the purpose is mad ...[text shortened]... [/b] of God is IN Christ Jesus our Lord WHERE God MADE IT.
Are you with me so far?[/b]
The eternal purpose of Christ is tied up with mankind.
Christ , not God.
You are confusing Christ and God. Thats your problem.
They are two separate entities.
SEPARATE.
God has His purpose.
Christ has his .. and Jesus Christ is tied up with man.
Originally posted by Rajk999Forgive me. I am going to be doing some repetitive writing.
Yes I reading but not fully understanding. Give me some time.
But while Im doing that bear in mind that my next question is going to be : What what God's purpose or eternal purpose before he created man ... nothing?
The Bible does talk about somethings regarding before man was created.
Let's examine one or two of them to get a grasp on "the eternal purpose which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Eph. 3:11)
One is the intention of God before the foundation of the world.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the hevenlies in Christ,
Even as He chose us in Him [Christ that is] before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph . 1:1-5)
A few observations:
1.) This choosing of God was before the foundation of the world. I take that to mean before the creation of the universe.
This strongly implies that first God had a plan that required some choosing. Then based upon this plan He then laid the foundation of the world, He created the universe.
In order for Him to carry out His pupose He needs a universe for our environment. Time and space and the universe came into being on account of the fact that God made a choice in the sphere and realm of Christ Jesus even before Christ was incarnated to be a man.
How else can we understand that God chose "us" in Him before the foundation of the world?
2.) The choosing and the predestinating was for God to have sons - "sonship"
That is that some creatures after the foundation of the world would be lain, would become sons of God with the nature of God and the life of God to be in the divine family of God.
Now we should be able to see that "born again" has more of a purpose than to simply cause one to be forgiven. It means that one with a created life is to receive in addition TO that an uncreated and divine life IMPLANTED INTO her or his created human life.
This is a mingling of two lives.
This is a incorporation of one life into another life to produce people with the position and status and nature of sons of God - sonship.
3.) The choosing is in the realm of Christ. And the making of these sons is through Jesus Christ - "predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ"
Sonship is a better translation than the KJV version "adoption". These sons are not only adopted. They are organically sons with the life of the Father dispensed into their human life.
In other words it is more than a legal matter. It is an "organic" matter.
We are still talking about "the eternal purpose which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Eph. 3:11)
Originally posted by Rajk999============================
God is accomplishing his eternal purpose through Christ.
The eternal purpose of Christ is tied up with mankind.
Christ , not God.
You are confusing Christ and God. Thats your problem.
They are two separate entities.
SEPARATE.
God has His purpose.
Christ has his .. and Jesus Christ is tied up with man.
You are confusing Christ and God. Thats your problem.
They are two separate entities.
SEPARATE.
God has His purpose.
Christ has his .. and Jesus Christ is tied up with man.
================================
God and Christ are distinct. They are not separated.
One lives in the other. And the other lives in one. There is the coinherance of God and Christ.
To mingle two or more things is to combine them in such a way that the components remain distinguishable in the combination. In the combination of the Man Jesus of Nazareth and His eternal Father we see the component of humanity and the component of divinity.
Therefore Jesus Christ is the mingling of God and man.
When Jesus was the Divine Word who clothed Himself in flesh and became a man. He died a redemptive death and rose.
When He rose He ascended back to the eternal throne of God. But He went back wearing now our human nature. Before He had only divinity. When He returned He had divinity plus humanity.
Now listien. This is what you have to understand. You have to grasp this:
When He returned to the eternal throne of God it was not that He took ONE man back to be on that throne. It is that representatively He took back MAN to be on that throne.
God became like us in order to make us like Him.
He did not return to the throne of God to be the only God man on a pedestal alone. He took humanity back to be one with God.
He is the Head of this entity. And His church is the Body of this entity.
HE did not bring back just A man to be exalted. He brought back man in a universal sense to be exalted.
This was all a part of His process to carry out "the eternal purpose which He [God] made in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Eph. 3:11)
Now, Here is a portion of His prayer to demonstrate that He (Jesus the Son of God) requests of His Father that His saved people become like Him:
" Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that the also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)
To be with Him where He is is much more than to be in heaven. It is to organically be in the state that He is in. That is to be a God/Man expressing the eternal glory of God.
Glory here is simply the expression of the uncreated Divine Person. When God is expressed that is glory.
Jesus before His crucifixion prays to the Father that those who are His would be with Him where He is. Where is He? He is in the mingling of God and man.
Before the foundation of the world, before the creation of the universe this Word Who became flesh enjoyed this glory as a Divine One only. Now after His incarnation, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension, He returns to the eternal throne wearing the resurrected and glorified human nature. He again comes to enjoy that glory that He had before the foundation of the world but this time as not only divine but Human and Divine.
Now here again in the same prayer Jesus prays that His saved people would be like Him:
" That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may know that You have sent Me. And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one even as We are one.
I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one ..."(John 17:21-23a)(
As Jesus is the mingling of God and man, He petitions His Father that His redeemed people who are saved would also be in this mingling of God and man.
This request to His Father is also according to the "eternal purpose which He [God] made in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Eph. 3:11)
Originally posted by Rajk999The phrase "the eternal purpose" is in Ephesians 3:11.
Ok .. we will talk tonight.
"the eternal purpose which He [God] made in Christ Jesus" This eternal purpose is also called "the mystery of His will" in chapter 1.
"Making known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself." (Eph. 1;9)
The Bible says that all the things created by God are created because of His will. That means that the universe was created because God had a will. The angelic beings in Revelation chapter 4 praise God for this:
"You are worthy, our Lord and God to receive the glory and the honor and the power, for You have created all things, and because of Your will they were, and were created." (Rev. 4:11)
The eternal God had a plan, a will, and a good pleasure which was the mystery of His will. Based upon this will God created all things. All things were created because of the will of God.
Man is not on the earth by an accident but because of the mystery of the will of God, because of His "eternal purpose"
The aspect of this will in chapter one is the heading up of all things under this God/Man Christ. That is that in the process of time God is bringing everything to be headed up underneath this Man the Son of God.
"Making known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Himself, unto the economy of the fullness of the times, to head up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth, in Him...." (Eph. 1:10)
The word economy in means "household administration" or "house law". And "fullness of the times" means that all the ages of time in the universe will ultimately come to a climax in this adminstration in which everything is headed up in Christ.
Everyone, every living thing, every leaf on every tree, every molecule and every atom, every planet and every galaxy, every world and everywhere - all is headed in the direction to be underneath the Head - Jesus Christ.
The universe is being headed up under a man. I said the universe is being structured, arranged, formated and headed up under this Man Jesus Christ.
"Unto the economy of the fullness of the times, to head up all things in Christ, the things in teh heavens and the things on the earth, in Him." (Eph. 1:10)
Revelation 4 says that all things were created for the will of God. And Ephesians 1 says that in the fullness of times all things will be headed up in Christ.
This means that when we allow ourselves today to be underneath the Head Jesus Christ, we are kind of pioneers. We are the first to taste within the climax of the entire universe. When we receive Jesus Christ as our Lord we are getting a foretaste within of the ultimate heading up of everywhere and everything in Christ Jesus.
We are tasting this universal administration towards which the times and the ages are moving. And it is wonderful.
Originally posted by jaywillBut we are all sinners...
Hell is just the realm of the dead. It is Hades. A place for the departed non-material part of man - saved or unsaved.
To say that everyone who dies goes to hell (Hades) would not be unscriptural IMO.
You mean what is the purpose of a place like [b]"the second death" or "the lake of fire" meaning eternal punishment.
I have thought muc ...[text shortened]... ng and rebellions.
I don't think we should think about it too much. It is horrible.
[b]
Originally posted by snowinscotlandWe are all sinners.
But we are all sinners...
But the problem of the record of our sins is totally dealt with in the death of Jesus on His cross.
You have to understand that this is not a matter of God liberally and loosely saying "Well, let's just forget about it. I know that you didn't mean to do those things."
No, it is a matter of JUSTICE has been accomplished in His death - against our sins. We agree with God that we were judged on Calvary's cross in the body of Jesus. Justice has been imputed on our behalf in Christ's crucifixion.
This is the power of the gospel. If I go now to God and remind Him of my sins He would say "I don't know what you are talking about. You were judged 2000 years ago on Calvary in the death of Christ."
You are set free. You are loosed from your record of sins. He doesn't remember. "Their sins and their lawlessnesses I will by no means remember any more." (Hebrews 8:12 quoting Jeremiah)
I think a woman or a man can be born again simply by beginning to THANK Jesus for dying for his or her sins. That shows believing. And believing brings us into Christ.
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The word economy in means "household administration" or "house law". And "fullness of the times" means that all the ages of time in the universe will ultimately come to a climax in this adminstration in which everything is headed up in Christ.
Everyone, every living thing, every leaf on every tree, every molecule and every atom, every planet and every galaxy, every world and everywhere - all is headed in the direction to be underneath the Head - Jesus Christ.
The universe is being headed up under a man. I said the universe is being structured, arranged, formated and headed up under this Man Jesus Christ.
"Unto the economy of the fullness of the times, to head up all things in Christ, the things in teh heavens and the things on the earth, in Him." (Eph. 1:10)
==========================================
In other words, the will of God is what we all want.
If you tremble and shrink back when you hear this phrase "the will of God" it indicates that you are still deceived.
The will of God is beyond all that we could ask or think. It is the Paradise of life and enjoyment that we thirst for.
We have all been hoodwinked.
Sometimes I pray "Lord have mercy on me. I am still a deceived man, for I shun and fear the will of God."
When you think of the will of God you should think of Revelation 21 and 22 - No sin, No sins, No death, No tears, No sorrow, No sickness, No injustice, No hatred, Eternal life, A new heaven and a new earth, inseperable love of God for His people, perfect righteousness, endless beauty.