13 Feb 13
3 edits
Originally posted by stellspalfieeven more nothingness, hardly surprising given the FACTS that people do and have changed, if they desired it. The Bible makes it perfectly clear that assisted help works.
im not sure if it makes it better or worse if he is aware thats what he does......probably worse.
13 Feb 13
Originally posted by stellspalfieRob and myself had a discussion about a piece of Watchtower propaganda he posted on the forum a while back. The article made some claim about the Cambrian Explosion pertaining to out of date science, the article was 30 years old so it was to be expected. So i explained to him why the article was wrong and that the science behind the Cambrian Explosion had moved forward in the 30 years since the article was written. His reply was something like 'unsubstantiated self certified opinion masquerading as fact'. So i gave him 5 or 6 links to scientific websites and journals backing up my claim as to why the article was wrong. His reply - 'I have no interest in reading those websites'. That's the way he rolls.
im not sure if it makes it better or worse if he is aware thats what he does......probably worse.
13 Feb 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI tire of your attention seeking antics, your disingenuous debating tactics, and your closed minded and ignorance.
so you have nothingness, no surprise.
I keep falling into the trap that a rational discussion can be had with you. I've been doing this for that long you'd think i would remember.
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13 Feb 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Proper Knobim not sure if it is disingenuous. he could register as having autism/aspergers, it would explain the high chess score and the illogically fixed way of thinking.....but his self awareness would suggest its just bog standard trolling.
I tire of your attention seeking antics, your disingenuous debating tactics, and your closed minded and ignorance.
I keep falling into the trap that a rational discussion can be had with you. I've been doing this for that long you'd think i would remember.
i was looking through some of your debates with him from the past earlier. i found an hilarious one from galveston from 5 or so years ago - asking how bats manage to survive while they wait for their wings to evolve and how did they know they were going to need wings!!!!!
so as annoying as the debates can be, sometimes its worth it for the nuggets of comedy gold.
Anyone can repress their feelings and instincts and mold themselves into something different if they put their mind to it. There is no doubt that homosexuals can live as heterosexuals with much repression, reprogramming and will power. Tell yourself any lie over and over again and you will eventually believe it is true. We all know the mind can be deprogrammed and reprogrammed.
However this, to me, is not any kind of evidence towards homosexuality being something that is "curable" or proof that homosexuals are not born with a predisposition towards same sex attraction. Quite the opposite. It's just another example of how your mind can be easily manipulated if you let it and how, sadly, guilt through indoctrination can make people seek such "assistance" when there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.
13 Feb 13
3 edits
Originally posted by ZambonerThis is interesting from the perspective that you readily admit that a person can change and I thank you for it, for at least you had the decency and courtesy to stick to the actual theme. Clearly there are persons who have changed from homosexual behavior to heterosexual and you are correct, the lie is that they were predisposed toward homosexuality and it was made null and void. For clearly it can work both ways, although you fail to mention the fact. The error of your text is assuming that persons want to change out of a sense of guilt, or are manipulated, or are indoctrinated, for clearly there may be many other motivating factors for wanting to do so, none of which involve indoctrination, guilt or manipulation. No one can force someone to adopt Christian principles, the motivation must come from within themselves, the desire to lead a life that is in harmony with those principles, must be innate.
Anyone can repress their feelings and instincts and mold themselves into something different if they put their mind to it. There is no doubt that homosexuals can live as heterosexuals with much repression, reprogramming and will power. Tell yourself any lie over and over again and you will eventually believe it is true. We all know the mind can be deprog on can make people seek such "assistance" when there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.
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13 Feb 13
Originally posted by Zambonerexactly. also the people in the studies volunteered to be 'cured' which would pretty much make the study redundant as the volunteers would more likely to 'want' to be change and therefore much more likely to 'play along'
Anyone can repress their feelings and instincts and mold themselves into something different if they put their mind to it. There is no doubt that homosexuals can live as heterosexuals with much repression, reprogramming and will power. Tell yourself any lie over and over again and you will eventually believe it is true. We all know the mind can be deprog ...[text shortened]... on can make people seek such "assistance" when there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.
the study would need to also need to have random selection and a group having some sort of placebo treatment.
i would also be fascinated to know why people were only turned from gay to straight??? why not turn some straight people gay???
13 Feb 13
2 edits
Originally posted by stellspalfiesadly for you, such cynicism is a total failure, the impediment to actual study is not that people played along, nor that people who want to change are more likely to play along but that definitions of what constitutes a homosexual are the impediment to research itself.
exactly. also the people in the studies volunteered to be 'cured' which would pretty much make the study redundant as the volunteers would more likely to 'want' to be change and therefore much more likely to 'play along'
the study would need to also need to have random selection and a group having some sort of placebo treatment.
i would also be fa ...[text shortened]... y people were only turned from gay to straight??? why not turn some straight people gay???
"[P]eople often change their sexual behavior during their lifetimes, making it impossible to state that a particular set of behaviors defines a person as gay. A man who has sex with men today, for example, might not have done so 10 years ago."
Michael, et al., p. 172.
Are you still wiling to deny that people can change their behavior? why have none of the proponents of once a homosexual always a homosexual answered this question?
13 Feb 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSometimes therapy works sometimes it doesn't. The strength of one's determination to change is key. If someone who is homosexual wants to try to become a heterosexual, good luck to them. Same goes for the other way round.
Are you still wiling to deny that people can change their behavior?
There is nothing immoral about being a homosexual, as far as I am concerned, as long as he or she does not harm anyone, does not deceive them, or coerce them.
If the Bible claims that sexual orientation A or sexual orientation B [even if practised with empathy, compassion, generosity of spirit, and in the moral way I have outlined] is "immoral" or an "abomination" or "punishable by death" or whatever, then free moral agents - including those who take inspiration from Jesus Christ - can and should reject the Bible's teaching on this matter, just as they can and should reject the Koran [or any other anachronistic ancient text] or, for that matter, any Moral Busybody's Charter.
If a homosexual is happy to be a homosexual, then good for them. If they feel some sort of self-loathing and feel the need for therapy, then they should go for it if they think it will make them feel better. But, as I said, sometimes therapy works sometimes it doesn't.
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13 Feb 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieim not going to waste my time explaining things to you. you clearly choose not to understand simple principles (i hope for your sake it is a choice). the last debate regarding statistics was an eye opener for me. i knew you were stubborn, but its become apparent you are nothing more than a monty python sketch.
sadly for you, such cynicism is a total failure, the impediment to actual study is not that people played along, nor that people who want to change are more likely to play along but that definitions of what constitutes a homosexual are the impediment to research itself.
"[P]eople often change their sexual behavior during their lifetimes, making it ...[text shortened]... y have none of the proponents of once a homosexual always a homosexual answered this question?
13 Feb 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt's not just indoctrination from a faith perspective but can also be guilt brought on from family, friends and any other group with influence in one's life that pushes the lie that homosexuality is shameful and abnormal. I firmly disagree with your claim that homosexuality can be the lie. Unless you've lived it, you can't claim any such fallacy as fact. I can agree that there are people who definitely choose to live within a homosexual culture without a natural predisposition towards same sex attraction (fetishism, peer groups, etc.) but I believe that such persons wouldn't need any assistance if they chose to abandon such a lifestyle. I have known several women who have "experimented" in homosexuality only to retreat back to the hetero life. Admittedly these were all flaky art school city girls though.
This is interesting from the perspective that you readily admit that a person can change and I thank you for it, for at least you had the decency and courtesy to stick to the actual theme. Clearly there are persons who have changed from homosexual behavior to heterosexual and you are correct, the lie is that they were predisposed toward homosexuality ...[text shortened]... themselves, the desire to lead a life that is in harmony with those principles, must be innate.
13 Feb 13
Originally posted by stellspalfieyawn. If anyone would like to answer the question of whether it is possible that someone can change their behavior or that they are doomed as those who propose the essentially destructive pseudo scientific immutability approach as once a homosexual always a homosexual, then please let the forum know. In the absence of an honest answer we shall now proceed under the auspices that yes indeed, people can and do change their behavior, that the materialists cannot bring themselves to answer the question, should not be a deterrent.
im not going to waste my time explaining things to you. you clearly choose not to understand simple principles (i hope for your sake it is a choice). the last debate regarding statistics was an eye opener for me. i knew you were stubborn, but its become apparent you are nothing more than a monty python sketch.