02 Jan 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterlucky i dont believe in it then
No , I didn't say you were just as evil as hitler but you are no more likely to gain salvation than hitler without recourse to the cross of christ. All have fallen short and although hitler has fallen way shorter than most , you me and everyone cannot match up to God's holiness. If a man like hitler confesses and repents and asks for forgiveness on the ...[text shortened]... is sounds scandalous but hey , that's the gospel , it's not there to make you feel better.
02 Jan 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterThat's not the Gospel; it's your demented version of Christ's Gospel.
No , I didn't say you were just as evil as hitler but you are no more likely to gain salvation than hitler without recourse to the cross of christ. All have fallen short and although hitler has fallen way shorter than most , you me and everyone cannot match up to God's holiness. If a man like hitler confesses and repents and asks for forgiveness on the ...[text shortened]... is sounds scandalous but hey , that's the gospel , it's not there to make you feel better.
02 Jan 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterChrist constantly told people not to sin; he never said you could sin like Hitler and then be forgiven just because you "repented".
and you back this up how?......
You're perfectly aware of this IF you've even read the Synoptic Gospels in the most cursory manner.
02 Jan 08
Originally posted by no1marauderHe did however say that there was only one sin that could not be forgiven and as far as we know hitler didn't commit it. If hitler genuinely repented then why should he not be forgiven? Was the Son of God not good enough to die for hitler? If the Son of God is slain for sin then all sin is potentially covered. Hitler's crimes were gross and depraved and disgusting , an insult to God's holiness , but have you not realised that Christ become such a reviled thing before God on the cross that God had to abandon him? To say that hitler's sin is too big for God to forgive is to downsize the sacrifice of the son of God himself and say his blood is not "good enough" to cover sin.
Christ constantly told people not to sin; he never said you could sin like Hitler and then be forgiven just because you "repented".
You're perfectly aware of this IF you've even read the Synoptic Gospels in the most cursory manner.
02 Jan 08
2 edits
Originally posted by knightmeisterWhy did Christ bother to preach? People like you ignore his life and concentrate on his death. I wish I could remember the source of this sentence, but I read that "the religion of Jesus became a religion about Jesus".
He did however say that there was only one sin that could not be forgiven and as far as we know hitler didn't commit it. If hitler genuinely repented then why should he not be forgiven? Was the Son of God not good enough to die for hitler? If the Son of God is slain for sin then all sin is potentially covered. Hitler's crimes were gross and depraved e sacrifice of the son of God himself and say his blood is not "good enough" to cover sin.
We both know that Jesus never said his death forgave all sins for all time. That remains true no matter how often you keep ignoring that fact. Christ becoming a reviled thing on the cross is another thing that was dreamed up that does not exist in the Gospels. The list of things that you cavalierly state are part of the Gospel that are absent from the actual Gospels is long indeed.
Do you think that Hitler will meet the criteria listed in Matthew 25:31-46?
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Do you think that a repented Hitler would have "doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven?"
02 Jan 08
Originally posted by no1marauder"This is my blood , shed for the remission of sins"
Why did Christ bother to preach? People like you ignore his life and concentrate on his death. I wish I could remember the source of this sentence, but I read that "the religion of Jesus became a religion about Jesus".
We both know that Jesus never said his death forgave all sins for all time. That remains true no matter how often you keep ...[text shortened]... eed.
Do you think that Hitler will meet the criteria listed in Matthew 25:31-46?
"Father , why hast thou forsaken me?"
" Any man who comes to me , I will never turn away"
02 Jan 08
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeister1) Doesn't say all sins for all time; remission suggests prior sins (like those of the Jewish people - it's likely Jesus was speaking metaphorically). Remission itself means to "let go" or forget - it's kinda hard to let go what hasn't happened yet;
"This is my blood , shed for the remission of sins"
"Father , why hast thou forsaken me?"
" Any man who comes to me , I will never turn away"
2) That proves what? Certainly not what you claimed.
3) Reference, please.
02 Jan 08
Originally posted by no1marauder1) What exactly does "prior" mean if you are an eternal God?
1) Doesn't say all sins for all time; remission suggests prior sins (like those of the Jewish people - it's likely Jesus was speaking metaphorically). Remission itself means to "let go" or forget - it's kinda hard to let go what hasn't happened yet;
2) That proves what? Certainly not what you claimed.
3) Reference, please.
2) Shows that the Father was removing himself from jesus and forsaking him - what's your explanation for this?
3) Can't remember exactly where it is but I know it's there.
03 Jan 08
Originally posted by knightmeister1) Not that BS again. Jesus didn't hesitate to speak of the past or the future, did he?
1) What exactly does "prior" mean if you are an eternal God?
2) Shows that the Father was removing himself from jesus and forsaking him - what's your explanation for this?
3) Can't remember exactly where it is but I know it's there.
2) The plain meaning would be that Jesus, being nailed to a cross, figured that God might have screwed him. Your explanation is a stretch to say the least and is not supported by anything in the text but merely an extension of your prior beliefs being poured into the Gospels.
3) Your scholarship is impressive.
In regards to 2 - Why did Jesus say on the cross: "Forgive them Father; they know not what they do?" According to your theology, God only forgives if one adopts a certain theological position, yet here Jesus is asking God to forgive his killers without exception. Obviously Jesus didn't know about your much better religion.
03 Jan 08
Originally posted by no1marauderGod forgives and accepts everyone , but not everyone is humble enough to accept forgiveness from God.
1) Not that BS again. Jesus didn't hesitate to speak of the past or the future, did he?
2) The plain meaning would be that Jesus, being nailed to a cross, figured that God might have screwed him. Your explanation is a stretch to say the least and is not supported by anything in the text but merely an extension of your prior beliefs being poured into t ...[text shortened]... his killers without exception. Obviously Jesus didn't know about your much better religion.
On your other point , it seems ridiculous that Jesus died only for the past sins of the Jews , what about the rest of us? Jesus must have died for the whole of humanity over all time otherwise it's nonsense.